Rather Disturbing question but...

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SandChigger
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Postby SandChigger » 14 Nov 2008 19:49

EsperandoAGodot wrote:Product placement would be important if it was a public appearance and not sandwalking. For the sake of making my heard hurt less, is Paul at least off to go build with a bunch of powerful offworld contractors, rather than natives, pilgrims, and Fremen?

And that's the problem: it's supposed to be a very private moment for the family, building a cairn for the skull and a few bones of Duke Leto.

Which they have...and then Korba and a bunch of construction workers fly in with tons of stone and build a pyramid over the cairn. All very cinematic (with unlimited special effects!)...I can almost see it now. :roll:

Shite...utter, total, and complete. Yet I've seen people post that the chapter "moved" them. Take a good long look around out there: half of them are idiots.
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Postby EsperandoAGodot » 14 Nov 2008 19:55

SandChigger wrote:
EsperandoAGodot wrote:Product placement would be important if it was a public appearance and not sandwalking. For the sake of making my heard hurt less, is Paul at least off to go build with a bunch of powerful offworld contractors, rather than natives, pilgrims, and Fremen?

And that's the problem: it's supposed to be a very private moment for the family, building a cairn for the skull and a few bones of Duke Leto.

Which they have...and then Korba and a bunch of construction workers fly in with tons of stone and build a pyramid over the cairn. All very cinematic (with unlimited special effects!)...I can almost see it now. :roll:

The thing is...

...and I'm going out on a limb here...

...I can see this scene working if it were written well. Done economically, it could probably handle pretty well the themes in Dune Messiah.

Of course, it's probably not written well, and Dune Messiah already dealt with those themes.
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Postby Lisan Al-Gaib » 14 Nov 2008 20:52

EsperandoAGodot wrote:
SandChigger wrote:
EsperandoAGodot wrote:Product placement would be important if it was a public appearance and not sandwalking. For the sake of making my heard hurt less, is Paul at least off to go build with a bunch of powerful offworld contractors, rather than natives, pilgrims, and Fremen?

And that's the problem: it's supposed to be a very private moment for the family, building a cairn for the skull and a few bones of Duke Leto.

Which they have...and then Korba and a bunch of construction workers fly in with tons of stone and build a pyramid over the cairn. All very cinematic (with unlimited special effects!)...I can almost see it now. :roll:

The thing is...

...and I'm going out on a limb here...

...I can see this scene working if it were written well. Done economically, it could probably handle pretty well the themes in Dune Messiah.

Of course, it's probably not written well, and Dune Messiah already dealt with those themes.


I'm with you. yes, it could be a beautiful chapter, but the character were so out of their personality... and Paul wearing off-world suit? Oh, my good frank herbert....
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Postby Ampoliros » 15 Nov 2008 16:02

Not to mention that the shrine was built in Dune Book 3 and in Dune Messiah its still a pile of rocks.

Not to mention that Water Discipline has to be followed by every Fremen, even (ne especially?) Paul Muad'dib...

Not to mention that being the first chapter, and being the first chapter leake..er, put out as a promotion, and including the juvenile stature of both the author, the text, and his attitude thereof; The stillsuit discrepancy was a blundering and idiotic attempt at a KJA-tailored 'Gotcha' move. While he says the stillsuits are superior, he kinda sorta takes it back when he has Paul think, no they aren't better.

It's my call that this was a fairly obvious attempt to bait the OH community into a rabid-attack-dog stance.

Unfortunately he failed in his attempt to rile us with cheap tricks. It was his shit writing and totally uncaring attitude toward Dune that riled us.
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Postby EsperandoAGodot » 15 Nov 2008 16:07

Ampoliros wrote:The stillsuit discrepancy was a blundering and idiotic attempt at a KJA-tailored 'Gotcha' move. While he says the stillsuits are superior, he kinda sorta takes it back when he has Paul think, no they aren't better.

It's my call that this was a fairly obvious attempt to bait the OH community into a rabid-attack-dog stance.

Unfortunately he failed in his attempt to rile us with cheap tricks. It was his shit writing and totally uncaring attitude toward Dune that riled us.

I wouldn't quite go that far...
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Postby Freakzilla » 15 Nov 2008 16:32

The off-world stillsuit scene doesn't make foam at the mouth. I can easily imagine that a better stillsuit could be made somewhere else. I imagine it would take an order from Paul to get Fremen to wear them.

What bothers me is that they have no respect for the chronological order of things in FH's Duniverse. Everything has to come first in their books.
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Postby Serkanner » 15 Nov 2008 18:31

Freakzilla wrote:The off-world stillsuit scene doesn't make foam at the mouth. I can easily imagine that a better stillsuit could be made somewhere else. I imagine it would take an order from Paul to get Fremen to wear them.

What bothers me is that they have no respect for the chronological order of things in FH's Duniverse. Everything has to come first in their books.


I hope that is not the only reason. Me just hates every single word these two hacks have published. I am a hater.
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on my priavte parts...Er, Imean KJA

Postby Sole Man » 15 Nov 2008 18:41

Hurm...Maybe its all part in grand scheme? I think Ampoliros could be right...could he's trying to get us angry, make us back him into a corner.

But will a weasel do when frightened into a cornor?

And if that is his plan, then we've played right into it.

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Postby Freakzilla » 15 Nov 2008 18:45

Serkanner wrote:
Freakzilla wrote:The off-world stillsuit scene doesn't make foam at the mouth. I can easily imagine that a better stillsuit could be made somewhere else. I imagine it would take an order from Paul to get Fremen to wear them.

What bothers me is that they have no respect for the chronological order of things in FH's Duniverse. Everything has to come first in their books.


I hope that is not the only reason. Me just hates every single word these two hacks have published. I am a hater.


I haven't read it. I'm one of those that can't figure out after reading nine other shit novels that this one would probably be shit too.
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Re: on my priavte parts...Er, Imean KJA

Postby Serkanner » 15 Nov 2008 18:50

Sole Man wrote:Hurm...Maybe its all part in grand scheme? I think Ampoliros could be right...could he's trying to get us angry, make us back him into a corner.

But will a weasel do when frightened into a cornor?

And if that is his plan, then we've played right into it.


I truly hope the weasel will do because what will happen if we corner a Grizzly bear?
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Postby SandChigger » 15 Nov 2008 19:22

I think the attitude is more "Look what I can do! And you can't stop me! There are plenty of stooges out there who will eat this shit up; you know it and I know it, so like it or lump it! Ha ha ha!"


But really, when I think about it, I really hope that Kevin does believe himself to be a good writer, and that he honestly thinks this shit is his best work.

I prefer the image of him as a total fool. :twisted:
I have heard of only one mistake that doesn’t have an explanation for a careful reader...with an open mind. (And, no, I’m not going to tell you what it is!) —KJA

I don't like every writer's style; for instance, I have never been able to get through Ursula LeGuin, China Mieville, or Iain Banks, all of whom are critical darlings. —KJA

I...had written a bunch of Star Wars and X-Files books...that proved not just that I'm a hack, but that I could write in somebody else's universe... —KJA

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Postby Serkanner » 15 Nov 2008 20:01

SandChigger wrote:I think the attitude is more "Look what I can do! And you can't stop me! There are plenty of stooges out there who will eat this shit up; you know it and I know it, so like it or lump it! Ha ha ha!"


But really, when I think about it, I really hope that Kevin does believe himself to be a good writer, and that he honestly thinks this shit is his best work.

I prefer the image of him as a total fool. :twisted:


After all these years you still doubt he doesn't believe he is the Galaxy's Über-writer?
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Postby SandRider » 15 Nov 2008 20:16

SandChigger wrote:
Some shitty hack wrote: On their trek, Paul and his three companions wore new stillsuits covered by mottled cloaks to camouflage them in the desert. Though the garments looked well worn, they were actually finer than any Paul had used when he'd lived as a fugitive among the Fremen. Their makers claimed that these durable offworld imports were superior to the simpler versions that had traditionally been made in hidden sietches.The manufacturers mean well, he thought. They do it to show their support for me, without realizing the implied criticism in their "improvements."

We kicked this one around in one of the PoD threads back in September, before you joined. Anything not manufactured in the sietches was inferior and the Fremen would never rely on them. They're off to build a shrine to a family member: why wouldn't they wear their usual stillsuits? It doesn't make sense on any level.
SandRider wrote:maybe its a literary metaphor for KJA's improvements to Frank's Dune ....
Amp wrote:Not to mention that being the first chapter, and being the first chapter leake..er, put out as a promotion, and including the juvenile stature of both the author, the text, and his attitude thereof; The stillsuit discrepancy was a blundering and idiotic attempt at a KJA-tailored 'Gotcha' move. While he says the stillsuits are superior, he kinda sorta takes it back when he has Paul think, no they aren't better. It's my call that this was a fairly obvious attempt to bait the OH community into a rabid-attack-dog stance.
SandChigger wrote:I think the attitude is more "Look what I can do! And you can't stop me! There are plenty of stooges out there who will eat this shit up; you know it and I know it, so like it or lump it! Ha ha ha!"But really, when I think about it, I really hope that Kevin does believe himself to be a good writer, and that he honestly thinks this shit is his best work.I prefer the image of him as a total fool. :twisted:

a couple of days ago, when Chig posted that PoS excerpt, for just a moment, I thought I saw something there, and so posted my "maybe it's a literary metaphor". Then I realized, no, of course not. "The manufacturers mean well, he thought. They do it to show their support for me, without realizing the implied criticism in their "improvement"" This would be my argument, that by "improving" Dune, they are criticizing Frank. Then I realized I'd been thinking about "literary metaphors" and Kevin J. Anderson with the same brain, and slapped myself silly.

Amp displays a distrustful paranoia the OH must overcome, for one simple reason. Kevin's just not that smart .....
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Postby Freakzilla » 15 Nov 2008 20:28

I don't think he can see the irony.
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Postby SandRider » 15 Nov 2008 20:31

Freakzilla wrote:I don't think he can see the irony.


what i'm sayin.
we overthink the thing too much.

Kevin's dumber than the box the rocks came in.
Sloey's got more insight....
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Postby Tleszer » 15 Nov 2008 21:18

Freakzilla wrote:I don't think he can see the irony.


Here is the definition of irony, just in case anyone was curious. :)

KJA could learn a thing or two about irony. However, we must all agree that the stillsuit does not make the man, unless of course it makes him dark, because, as we all know, darkness is the best characterization an author can give to an optimistic youth who never actually was optimistic about the future he knew he would help to create. :roll:
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Postby Sole Man » 16 Nov 2008 11:37

What's with all the RED VS. BLUE scenes all of a sudden? I'm just curios...

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Re: on RVB

Postby Tleszer » 16 Nov 2008 14:09

Sole Man wrote:What's with all the RED VS. BLUE scenes all of a sudden? I'm just curios...


It's called association. Several posts before mine used the term "irony" or "ironic" to describe a situation relating to KJA. I can't help it if I now associate "irony" with that scene from RvB. :)
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Postby RedHeadKevin » 13 Feb 2009 20:57

Getting back to the original question here...

I've always assumed that menstruation was treated like any other body fluid when it was processed by the stillsuits.

Here's a second, equally disturbing question: How do Fremen poop in a stillsuit?

My theories:
1.) the Fremen metabolism was unbelievably efficient, getting nearly every bit of nutrition from all their food, resulting in very little poo.

2.) The Fremen diet (especially for desert patrols) was very binding (much like the MRE's fed to US soldiers.) which caused very little need to go BM.

3.) The Fremen diet caused very loose stool, essentially diarrhea, which was easily absorbed/filtered or funneled to the thighpads of the stillsuit. (this would probably also allow more liquid water to be reclaimed into the suit for hydration purposes.)

As I see it, the stillsuit has a "pouch" at the seat, where the Fremen would squat, let things happen, and then stand up. The standing would channel the (very liquid) poo into the thighpads, through channels down the back of the legs.

Yes, the subject is gross, but I've been trying to draw a stillsuit design, and while I was drawing, I tried to visualize how the suit would work.
I don't recommend anyone drink their thigh pad water. It tastes really bad, like ass and dirt.

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On...feces

Postby Sole Man » 13 Feb 2009 22:45

*Shudders*

I...I don't even...Buuuuggh.

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Postby SandChigger » 13 Feb 2009 23:15

You don't even what? Poop?

Anal retentive, huh? Explains a few things.

Come on, Sloe Thang, let it out! Don't fear the crapper!

Everyone Poops! :D

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Re: On...feces

Postby Tleszer » 14 Feb 2009 00:58

Family Guy wrote:Peter Griffin: I'm looking for some toilet training books.
Salesman: We have the popular 'Everybody Poops", or the less popular 'Nobody Poops But You'.
Peter Griffin: Well, you see, we're Catholic...
Salesman: Ah, then you'll want 'You're a Naughty, Naughty Boy, and That's Concentrated Evil Coming out the Back of You'.
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Re: 557/34

Postby Zak » 09 Oct 2009 21:08

SandRider wrote:maybe its a literary metaphor for KJA's improvements to Frank's Dune ....



haha awesome!

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Re: Rather Disturbing question but...

Postby lotek » 10 Oct 2009 02:30

astronauts use this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximum_Absorbency_Garment

Eliminating Waste
Each spacewalking astronaut wears a large, absorbent diaper called a Maximum Absorption Garment (MAG) to collect urine and feces while in the space suit. The astronaut disposes the MAG when the spacewalk is over and he/she gets dressed in regular work clothes.


A powdery chemical absorbant called sodium polyacrylate is incorporated into the fabric of the garment. Sodium polyacrylate can absorb around four hundred times its weight in water.
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Re: Rather Disturbing question but...

Postby Arrrmanda » 10 Oct 2009 02:36

Is that the stuff the janitor used to use to clean up barf in elementary school?


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