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    Jewish Heritage via Axlotl Tank?

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    Jewish Heritage via Axlotl Tank?

    Postby Davaro » 19 Jul 2008 12:14

    Since FH established in CH:D that the Jewish heritage of Secret Israel is traced through their maternal line, your mother has to be a Jew in order for you to be one. In that case if Rebecca or another Jewish female is made into an axlotl tank would the gholas born from them be considered Jewish?
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    Re: Jewish Heritage via Axlotl Tank?

    Postby Nekhrun » 19 Jul 2008 13:25

    Davaro wrote:Since FH established in CH:D that the Jewish heritage of Secret Israel is traced through their maternal line, your mother has to be a Jew in order for you to be one. In that case if Rebecca or another Jewish female is made into an axlotl tank would the gholas born from them be considered Jewish?

    Sure.
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    Postby Omphalos » 19 Jul 2008 15:01

    Yea. Judaism in Dune has nothing to do with culture or religion. Its purely the ovum, or, even less, the vessel. Thanks for pointing this out.
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    Postby Nekhrun » 19 Jul 2008 15:38

    Okay, I feel a little bad about being so flippant. How about this...It doesn't even matter as the genetic structure of the end product has nothing to do with the tank it is grown in. So unless the person is already a Jew, then no Jew.
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    Postby orald » 19 Jul 2008 17:01

    First... :shock:


    Now, as the resident expert on Judaism, I agree with what Nekhrun said- unless the ghola is of a Jew in the first place, it won't be a Jew even being born by a Jewish ax-tank.

    I'm not entirely sure how much a ghola would be considered Jewish anyway, or a clone for that matter(I do believe gholas are a big no-no in Judaism...VERY big, and clones aren't all that great either).
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    Postby Tleszer » 19 Jul 2008 21:31

    orald wrote:I'm not entirely sure how much a ghola would be considered Jewish anyway, or a clone for that matter(I do believe gholas are a big no-no in Judaism...VERY big, and clones aren't all that great either).


    What? Have you never seen Star Wars Episode II or III? Clones are teh poop! :wink:
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    Postby SandChigger » 20 Jul 2008 00:28

    Look out ARCH: you gots da competition! :P
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    Postby Phaedrus » 20 Jul 2008 04:53

    orald wrote:First... :shock:


    Now, as the resident expert on Judaism, I agree with what Nekhrun said- unless the ghola is of a Jew in the first place, it won't be a Jew even being born by a Jewish ax-tank.

    I'm not entirely sure how much a ghola would be considered Jewish anyway, or a clone for that matter(I do believe gholas are a big no-no in Judaism...VERY big, and clones aren't all that great either).


    Probably because ash contains no genetic content.
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    Postby Phaedrus » 20 Jul 2008 04:54

    I'm REALLY sorry for the above joke, but I had to do it. I know it's probably HORRIBLY offensive.
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    Postby SandChigger » 20 Jul 2008 07:06

    No more offensive than a seemingly never-ending onslaught of death threats, calls for the deaths of various people and/or groups, references to bombs and other instruments of terror or to pedophelia.
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    Postby Tyrant » 20 Jul 2008 10:50

    Phaedrus wrote:I'm REALLY sorry for the above joke, but I had to do it. I know it's probably HORRIBLY offensive.


    ahh...if your offended your probably too old...nothing is sacred anymore...and that makes me glad....so...with that in mind...good joke man...funny shit


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    Postby orald » 20 Jul 2008 14:45

    Pogroms! :shock: :x

    CH:D wrote:The Bene Gesserit had preserved Secret Israel in many hours of need. And a pogrom was something his people knew without lengthy explanations.
    Pogrom was embedded in the psyche of Secret Israel.
    And thanks to the Unspeakable, the chosen people would never forget.
    No more than they could forgive.
    In memory of Perach, who suffered and died needlessly.

    I wish I could have been with you that one last time.
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    Postby SandChigger » 20 Jul 2008 23:10

    Is it still a pogrom when the Jews are the ones holding the clubs and guns?

    Hmmm....

    Anyway, bringing the ORIGINAL question into a real world context: if a Jewish woman were to serve as a surrogate mother, being implated with the fertilized egg of a goy couple, the child wouldn't be considered Jewish, right?

    (Of course, that would be a horrible defilement under Judaism, right? Non-kosher eggs. :roll: )
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    Postby chanilover » 21 Jul 2008 02:09

    Why shouldn't the Jews have some nice clubs and guns? It must be quite empowering to able to fight back for once, the Palestinians are hardly blameless in that never-ending mess.
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    Postby SandChigger » 21 Jul 2008 05:46

    No one said anyone was blameless. I just figured we were in for another round of persecution moans from our Wailing Wallah.
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    Postby Freakzilla » 21 Jul 2008 12:33

    SandChigger wrote:No one said anyone was blameless. I just figured we were in for another round of persecution moans from our Wailing Wallah.


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    Postby orald » 21 Jul 2008 15:30

    I'm kinda not seeing where you're comign from, Chig...where are all the bodies? Ravaged towns? Who's been massacred here? What pogroms? :?

    I just like the Rabbi mentioning pogroms, since we do share that: we remember, we do not forget, and we do not forgive.


    And frankly, if anyone thinks I can be like the average westerner here just because I share some of the culture/interests, they're wrong- I cannot forget that a mere 65 years ago two millenia of antisemitism colluminated with the systematic murder of at least 6 million Jews by one of the world's(at the time) most educated, advanced and leading nations.

    If that was part of your lennieage(sp?), could you forget...or forgive?
    In memory of Perach, who suffered and died needlessly.

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    Postby Phaedrus » 21 Jul 2008 22:04

    orald wrote:I'm kinda not seeing where you're comign from, Chig...where are all the bodies? Ravaged towns? Who's been massacred here? What pogroms? :?

    I just like the Rabbi mentioning pogroms, since we do share that: we remember, we do not forget, and we do not forgive.


    And frankly, if anyone thinks I can be like the average westerner here just because I share some of the culture/interests, they're wrong- I cannot forget that a mere 65 years ago two millenia of antisemitism colluminated with the systematic murder of at least 6 million Jews by one of the world's(at the time) most educated, advanced and leading nations.

    If that was part of your lennieage(sp?), could you forget...or forgive?


    If my Old Testament is correct, your people were just as bloodthirsty when they were in power.

    It was a tragedy, but it was 65 years ago, and those people are dead now. We can only hope we've learned something, because it can't be undone... Forget, no. Forgive? That's the goal, I should think.
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    Postby SandChigger » 21 Jul 2008 23:24

    Nah, you get better mileage out of whining for a few centuries. :roll:

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    Postby A Thing of Eternity » 21 Jul 2008 23:40

    I had a big long post typed up, but opted to delete it, because as Omph reminded me the last time I got bent out of shape over this issue - I can never know what it's like to be a jew, or worse a jew in the holy land hearing every day about extremists who want to kill me and everyone I care about.

    Let's just say that maybe everything Isreal does is justifed (and for the record, I do agree - most of what they do is exactly what I would do in that position). Maybe it would be justified for Isreal to nuke all the extremist Islamic countries in self defense. But if you follow that line of thinking too far it quickly leads to "maybe it would be justified for everyone else to just nuke the entire middle east including the holy land and save the world from a lot of suffering and danger".

    That's not my opinion, but that is where that line of though leads. Just sayin.
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    Postby Fantômas » 22 Jul 2008 08:07

    orald wrote:I'm kinda not seeing where you're comign from, Chig...where are all the bodies? Ravaged towns? Who's been massacred here? What pogroms? :?

    I just like the Rabbi mentioning pogroms, since we do share that: we remember, we do not forget, and we do not forgive.


    And frankly, if anyone thinks I can be like the average westerner here just because I share some of the culture/interests, they're wrong- I cannot forget that a mere 65 years ago two millenia of antisemitism colluminated with the systematic murder of at least 6 million Jews by one of the world's(at the time) most educated, advanced and leading nations.

    If that was part of your lennieage(sp?), could you forget...or forgive?


    You guys "killed" Jesus. Tit for tat. Eye for an eye...
    at the very least, Jews got blamed for it.
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    Postby Nekhrun » 22 Jul 2008 08:32

    Fantômas wrote:
    orald wrote:I'm kinda not seeing where you're comign from, Chig...where are all the bodies? Ravaged towns? Who's been massacred here? What pogroms? :?

    I just like the Rabbi mentioning pogroms, since we do share that: we remember, we do not forget, and we do not forgive.


    And frankly, if anyone thinks I can be like the average westerner here just because I share some of the culture/interests, they're wrong- I cannot forget that a mere 65 years ago two millenia of antisemitism colluminated with the systematic murder of at least 6 million Jews by one of the world's(at the time) most educated, advanced and leading nations.

    If that was part of your lennieage(sp?), could you forget...or forgive?


    You guys "killed" Jesus. Tit for tat. Eye for an eye...
    at the very least, Jews got blamed for it.

    Jesus set the whole thing up with Judas. Get over it. He was more cunning than you give him credit for.
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    Postby Fantômas » 22 Jul 2008 09:00

    Nekhrun wrote:
    Fantômas wrote:
    orald wrote:I'm kinda not seeing where you're comign from, Chig...where are all the bodies? Ravaged towns? Who's been massacred here? What pogroms? :?

    I just like the Rabbi mentioning pogroms, since we do share that: we remember, we do not forget, and we do not forgive.


    And frankly, if anyone thinks I can be like the average westerner here just because I share some of the culture/interests, they're wrong- I cannot forget that a mere 65 years ago two millenia of antisemitism colluminated with the systematic murder of at least 6 million Jews by one of the world's(at the time) most educated, advanced and leading nations.

    If that was part of your lennieage(sp?), could you forget...or forgive?


    You guys "killed" Jesus. Tit for tat. Eye for an eye...
    at the very least, Jews got blamed for it.

    Jesus set the whole thing up with Judas. Get over it. He was more cunning than you give him credit for.

    Why would Holy Jesus do that?
    To split the 30 pieces of silver with Judas?
    Fantômas
     

    Postby Nekhrun » 22 Jul 2008 09:25

    Fantômas wrote:
    Nekhrun wrote:
    Fantômas wrote:
    orald wrote:I'm kinda not seeing where you're comign from, Chig...where are all the bodies? Ravaged towns? Who's been massacred here? What pogroms? :?

    I just like the Rabbi mentioning pogroms, since we do share that: we remember, we do not forget, and we do not forgive.


    And frankly, if anyone thinks I can be like the average westerner here just because I share some of the culture/interests, they're wrong- I cannot forget that a mere 65 years ago two millenia of antisemitism colluminated with the systematic murder of at least 6 million Jews by one of the world's(at the time) most educated, advanced and leading nations.

    If that was part of your lennieage(sp?), could you forget...or forgive?


    You guys "killed" Jesus. Tit for tat. Eye for an eye...
    at the very least, Jews got blamed for it.

    Jesus set the whole thing up with Judas. Get over it. He was more cunning than you give him credit for.

    Why would Holy Jesus do that?
    To split the 30 pieces of silver with Judas?

    No, to become a martyr and start something that would still influence people today. Ever read the Gospel of Judas? You've got to be kidding, by all biblical accounts he could've just run away or stopped the whole thing and you're asking why he did it? Of course it was his plan all along.
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    Postby Fantômas » 22 Jul 2008 10:30

    Nekhrun wrote:
    Fantômas wrote:
    Nekhrun wrote:
    Fantômas wrote:
    orald wrote:I'm kinda not seeing where you're comign from, Chig...where are all the bodies? Ravaged towns? Who's been massacred here? What pogroms? :?

    I just like the Rabbi mentioning pogroms, since we do share that: we remember, we do not forget, and we do not forgive.


    And frankly, if anyone thinks I can be like the average westerner here just because I share some of the culture/interests, they're wrong- I cannot forget that a mere 65 years ago two millenia of antisemitism colluminated with the systematic murder of at least 6 million Jews by one of the world's(at the time) most educated, advanced and leading nations.

    If that was part of your lennieage(sp?), could you forget...or forgive?


    You guys "killed" Jesus. Tit for tat. Eye for an eye...
    at the very least, Jews got blamed for it.

    Jesus set the whole thing up with Judas. Get over it. He was more cunning than you give him credit for.

    Why would Holy Jesus do that?
    To split the 30 pieces of silver with Judas?

    No, to become a martyr and start something that would still influence people today. Ever read the Gospel of Judas? You've got to be kidding, by all biblical accounts he could've just run away or stopped the whole thing and you're asking why he did it? Of course it was his plan all along.


    I think it was He's Father's plan but Jesus executed it. Jesus did what the Father Willed. At the very least, you have to admit Jesus has a pair.
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