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Jewish Heritage via Axlotl Tank?

Posted: 19 Jul 2008 12:14
by Davaro
Since FH established in CH:D that the Jewish heritage of Secret Israel is traced through their maternal line, your mother has to be a Jew in order for you to be one. In that case if Rebecca or another Jewish female is made into an axlotl tank would the gholas born from them be considered Jewish?

Re: Jewish Heritage via Axlotl Tank?

Posted: 19 Jul 2008 13:25
by Nekhrun
Davaro wrote:Since FH established in CH:D that the Jewish heritage of Secret Israel is traced through their maternal line, your mother has to be a Jew in order for you to be one. In that case if Rebecca or another Jewish female is made into an axlotl tank would the gholas born from them be considered Jewish?

Sure.

Posted: 19 Jul 2008 15:01
by Omphalos
Yea. Judaism in Dune has nothing to do with culture or religion. Its purely the ovum, or, even less, the vessel. Thanks for pointing this out.

Posted: 19 Jul 2008 15:38
by Nekhrun
Okay, I feel a little bad about being so flippant. How about this...It doesn't even matter as the genetic structure of the end product has nothing to do with the tank it is grown in. So unless the person is already a Jew, then no Jew.

Posted: 19 Jul 2008 17:01
by orald
First... :shock:


Now, as the resident expert on Judaism, I agree with what Nekhrun said- unless the ghola is of a Jew in the first place, it won't be a Jew even being born by a Jewish ax-tank.

I'm not entirely sure how much a ghola would be considered Jewish anyway, or a clone for that matter(I do believe gholas are a big no-no in Judaism...VERY big, and clones aren't all that great either).

Posted: 19 Jul 2008 21:31
by Tleszer
orald wrote:I'm not entirely sure how much a ghola would be considered Jewish anyway, or a clone for that matter(I do believe gholas are a big no-no in Judaism...VERY big, and clones aren't all that great either).


What? Have you never seen Star Wars Episode II or III? Clones are teh poop! :wink:

Posted: 20 Jul 2008 00:28
by SandChigger
Look out ARCH: you gots da competition! :P

Posted: 20 Jul 2008 04:53
by Phaedrus
orald wrote:First... :shock:


Now, as the resident expert on Judaism, I agree with what Nekhrun said- unless the ghola is of a Jew in the first place, it won't be a Jew even being born by a Jewish ax-tank.

I'm not entirely sure how much a ghola would be considered Jewish anyway, or a clone for that matter(I do believe gholas are a big no-no in Judaism...VERY big, and clones aren't all that great either).


Probably because ash contains no genetic content.

Posted: 20 Jul 2008 04:54
by Phaedrus
I'm REALLY sorry for the above joke, but I had to do it. I know it's probably HORRIBLY offensive.

Posted: 20 Jul 2008 07:06
by SandChigger
No more offensive than a seemingly never-ending onslaught of death threats, calls for the deaths of various people and/or groups, references to bombs and other instruments of terror or to pedophelia.

Posted: 20 Jul 2008 10:50
by Tyrant
Phaedrus wrote:I'm REALLY sorry for the above joke, but I had to do it. I know it's probably HORRIBLY offensive.


ahh...if your offended your probably too old...nothing is sacred anymore...and that makes me glad....so...with that in mind...good joke man...funny shit


:cookie sm:

Posted: 20 Jul 2008 14:45
by orald
Pogroms! :shock: :x

CH:D wrote:The Bene Gesserit had preserved Secret Israel in many hours of need. And a pogrom was something his people knew without lengthy explanations.
Pogrom was embedded in the psyche of Secret Israel.
And thanks to the Unspeakable, the chosen people would never forget.
No more than they could forgive.

Posted: 20 Jul 2008 23:10
by SandChigger
Is it still a pogrom when the Jews are the ones holding the clubs and guns?

Hmmm....

Anyway, bringing the ORIGINAL question into a real world context: if a Jewish woman were to serve as a surrogate mother, being implated with the fertilized egg of a goy couple, the child wouldn't be considered Jewish, right?

(Of course, that would be a horrible defilement under Judaism, right? Non-kosher eggs. :roll: )

Posted: 21 Jul 2008 02:09
by chanilover
Why shouldn't the Jews have some nice clubs and guns? It must be quite empowering to able to fight back for once, the Palestinians are hardly blameless in that never-ending mess.

Posted: 21 Jul 2008 05:46
by SandChigger
No one said anyone was blameless. I just figured we were in for another round of persecution moans from our Wailing Wallah.

Posted: 21 Jul 2008 12:33
by Freakzilla
SandChigger wrote:No one said anyone was blameless. I just figured we were in for another round of persecution moans from our Wailing Wallah.


There are no innocents.

Posted: 21 Jul 2008 15:30
by orald
I'm kinda not seeing where you're comign from, Chig...where are all the bodies? Ravaged towns? Who's been massacred here? What pogroms? :?

I just like the Rabbi mentioning pogroms, since we do share that: we remember, we do not forget, and we do not forgive.


And frankly, if anyone thinks I can be like the average westerner here just because I share some of the culture/interests, they're wrong- I cannot forget that a mere 65 years ago two millenia of antisemitism colluminated with the systematic murder of at least 6 million Jews by one of the world's(at the time) most educated, advanced and leading nations.

If that was part of your lennieage(sp?), could you forget...or forgive?

Posted: 21 Jul 2008 22:04
by Phaedrus
orald wrote:I'm kinda not seeing where you're comign from, Chig...where are all the bodies? Ravaged towns? Who's been massacred here? What pogroms? :?

I just like the Rabbi mentioning pogroms, since we do share that: we remember, we do not forget, and we do not forgive.


And frankly, if anyone thinks I can be like the average westerner here just because I share some of the culture/interests, they're wrong- I cannot forget that a mere 65 years ago two millenia of antisemitism colluminated with the systematic murder of at least 6 million Jews by one of the world's(at the time) most educated, advanced and leading nations.

If that was part of your lennieage(sp?), could you forget...or forgive?


If my Old Testament is correct, your people were just as bloodthirsty when they were in power.

It was a tragedy, but it was 65 years ago, and those people are dead now. We can only hope we've learned something, because it can't be undone... Forget, no. Forgive? That's the goal, I should think.

Posted: 21 Jul 2008 23:24
by SandChigger
Nah, you get better mileage out of whining for a few centuries. :roll:

I blame the Romans. Diaspora was the WRONG solution.

Posted: 21 Jul 2008 23:40
by A Thing of Eternity
I had a big long post typed up, but opted to delete it, because as Omph reminded me the last time I got bent out of shape over this issue - I can never know what it's like to be a jew, or worse a jew in the holy land hearing every day about extremists who want to kill me and everyone I care about.

Let's just say that maybe everything Isreal does is justifed (and for the record, I do agree - most of what they do is exactly what I would do in that position). Maybe it would be justified for Isreal to nuke all the extremist Islamic countries in self defense. But if you follow that line of thinking too far it quickly leads to "maybe it would be justified for everyone else to just nuke the entire middle east including the holy land and save the world from a lot of suffering and danger".

That's not my opinion, but that is where that line of though leads. Just sayin.

Posted: 22 Jul 2008 08:07
by Fantômas
orald wrote:I'm kinda not seeing where you're comign from, Chig...where are all the bodies? Ravaged towns? Who's been massacred here? What pogroms? :?

I just like the Rabbi mentioning pogroms, since we do share that: we remember, we do not forget, and we do not forgive.


And frankly, if anyone thinks I can be like the average westerner here just because I share some of the culture/interests, they're wrong- I cannot forget that a mere 65 years ago two millenia of antisemitism colluminated with the systematic murder of at least 6 million Jews by one of the world's(at the time) most educated, advanced and leading nations.

If that was part of your lennieage(sp?), could you forget...or forgive?


You guys "killed" Jesus. Tit for tat. Eye for an eye...
at the very least, Jews got blamed for it.

Posted: 22 Jul 2008 08:32
by Nekhrun
Fantômas wrote:
orald wrote:I'm kinda not seeing where you're comign from, Chig...where are all the bodies? Ravaged towns? Who's been massacred here? What pogroms? :?

I just like the Rabbi mentioning pogroms, since we do share that: we remember, we do not forget, and we do not forgive.


And frankly, if anyone thinks I can be like the average westerner here just because I share some of the culture/interests, they're wrong- I cannot forget that a mere 65 years ago two millenia of antisemitism colluminated with the systematic murder of at least 6 million Jews by one of the world's(at the time) most educated, advanced and leading nations.

If that was part of your lennieage(sp?), could you forget...or forgive?


You guys "killed" Jesus. Tit for tat. Eye for an eye...
at the very least, Jews got blamed for it.

Jesus set the whole thing up with Judas. Get over it. He was more cunning than you give him credit for.

Posted: 22 Jul 2008 09:00
by Fantômas
Nekhrun wrote:
Fantômas wrote:
orald wrote:I'm kinda not seeing where you're comign from, Chig...where are all the bodies? Ravaged towns? Who's been massacred here? What pogroms? :?

I just like the Rabbi mentioning pogroms, since we do share that: we remember, we do not forget, and we do not forgive.


And frankly, if anyone thinks I can be like the average westerner here just because I share some of the culture/interests, they're wrong- I cannot forget that a mere 65 years ago two millenia of antisemitism colluminated with the systematic murder of at least 6 million Jews by one of the world's(at the time) most educated, advanced and leading nations.

If that was part of your lennieage(sp?), could you forget...or forgive?


You guys "killed" Jesus. Tit for tat. Eye for an eye...
at the very least, Jews got blamed for it.

Jesus set the whole thing up with Judas. Get over it. He was more cunning than you give him credit for.

Why would Holy Jesus do that?
To split the 30 pieces of silver with Judas?

Posted: 22 Jul 2008 09:25
by Nekhrun
Fantômas wrote:
Nekhrun wrote:
Fantômas wrote:
orald wrote:I'm kinda not seeing where you're comign from, Chig...where are all the bodies? Ravaged towns? Who's been massacred here? What pogroms? :?

I just like the Rabbi mentioning pogroms, since we do share that: we remember, we do not forget, and we do not forgive.


And frankly, if anyone thinks I can be like the average westerner here just because I share some of the culture/interests, they're wrong- I cannot forget that a mere 65 years ago two millenia of antisemitism colluminated with the systematic murder of at least 6 million Jews by one of the world's(at the time) most educated, advanced and leading nations.

If that was part of your lennieage(sp?), could you forget...or forgive?


You guys "killed" Jesus. Tit for tat. Eye for an eye...
at the very least, Jews got blamed for it.

Jesus set the whole thing up with Judas. Get over it. He was more cunning than you give him credit for.

Why would Holy Jesus do that?
To split the 30 pieces of silver with Judas?

No, to become a martyr and start something that would still influence people today. Ever read the Gospel of Judas? You've got to be kidding, by all biblical accounts he could've just run away or stopped the whole thing and you're asking why he did it? Of course it was his plan all along.

Posted: 22 Jul 2008 10:30
by Fantômas
Nekhrun wrote:
Fantômas wrote:
Nekhrun wrote:
Fantômas wrote:
orald wrote:I'm kinda not seeing where you're comign from, Chig...where are all the bodies? Ravaged towns? Who's been massacred here? What pogroms? :?

I just like the Rabbi mentioning pogroms, since we do share that: we remember, we do not forget, and we do not forgive.


And frankly, if anyone thinks I can be like the average westerner here just because I share some of the culture/interests, they're wrong- I cannot forget that a mere 65 years ago two millenia of antisemitism colluminated with the systematic murder of at least 6 million Jews by one of the world's(at the time) most educated, advanced and leading nations.

If that was part of your lennieage(sp?), could you forget...or forgive?


You guys "killed" Jesus. Tit for tat. Eye for an eye...
at the very least, Jews got blamed for it.

Jesus set the whole thing up with Judas. Get over it. He was more cunning than you give him credit for.

Why would Holy Jesus do that?
To split the 30 pieces of silver with Judas?

No, to become a martyr and start something that would still influence people today. Ever read the Gospel of Judas? You've got to be kidding, by all biblical accounts he could've just run away or stopped the whole thing and you're asking why he did it? Of course it was his plan all along.


I think it was He's Father's plan but Jesus executed it. Jesus did what the Father Willed. At the very least, you have to admit Jesus has a pair.