"They denied us the Hajj!"

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Re: "They denied us the Hajj!"

Postby SandRider » 10 Feb 2010 21:49

right, the holy space rock is in a niche in the wall,
framed by (what's always looked to me like) a golden vagina ....



(yeah, I said that : Islam's Holiest Site is an extraterrestrial genital wart ....)


{edit}

say Chig, what's a fatwa ?
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Re: "They denied us the Hajj!"

Postby SandChigger » 10 Feb 2010 22:23

Fatwa?

COMING SOON NEAR YOU!!! :lol:

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Re: "They denied us the Hajj!"

Postby reverendmotherQ. » 11 Feb 2010 08:54

SandRider wrote:right, the holy space rock is in a niche in the wall,
framed by (what's always looked to me like) a golden vagina ....

And they call women inferior but frame the sacred rock inside of a replicated one.

Oh, I have seen pictures before, but I never really understood what it was outside of the people praying. But now it seems to have more value and i see it in a new light. If I wasn't an atheist, space rocks would be my relics.

So on Dune, when Muad Dib was alive, pilgrims flocked to Arrakis. Didn't Leto II have a similar set up his huge tower-esque structure? Wait, now that I think of it, he had the ritual holidays when he met the public.
It makes more sense to make a long journey to see an actual living being than a inanimate object. But space rocks, now that is something else.

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Re: "They denied us the Hajj!"

Postby lotek » 11 Feb 2010 09:21

1,400 Die In Mecca Stampede; Pilgrims Crushed In Tunnel Trying To Escape Heat
The Washington Post | July 3, 1990 | Copyright 2009 The Washington Post. This material is published under license from the Washington Post. All inquiries regarding rights should be directed to the Washington Post. (Hide copyright information) Copyright

About 1,400 Moslem pilgrims were trampled to death or died of suffocation today in a stampede in a pedestrian tunnel leading into the Islamic holy city of Mecca, witnesses and diplomats here said.

They said the stampede apparently began when hundreds of pilgrims stopped in the middle of the 500-yard-long air-conditioned tunnel to escape the 112-degree heat outside and were caught in the crush of hundreds of others pushing to get in. Some witnesses said also that the tunnel ventilation appeared to have stopped.

More than 18 hours after the disaster, Saudi officials had…

http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1P2-1135316.html


100 killed in Mecca crush.(News)
Daily Record (Glasgow, Scotland) | April 10, 1998 | COPYRIGHT 2009 Scottish Daily Record & Sunday. This material is published under license from the publisher through the Gale Group, Farmington Hills, Michigan. All inquiries regarding rights should be directed to the Gale Group. (Hide copyright information) Copyright

More than 100 people were feared dead last night…

http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-60264786.html

Fatal crushes often occur during the annual hajj pilgrimage to Mecca, sometimes killing hundreds of people. Now German researchers using traffic-modelling software have re-organized the ritual to make it safer for pilgrims.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/wor ... 58,00.html
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Re: "They denied us the Hajj!"

Postby reverendmotherQ. » 11 Feb 2010 10:04

^ Okay, that rules that wonder of the world off my list. While also posing as fully hidden Islamic woman is inconvienent as it is demeaning, being crushed by idiots is not a priority in my life.

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Re: "They denied us the Hajj!"

Postby lotek » 11 Feb 2010 10:43

Don't forget this:

Health

1. You'll leave home ready to immerse yourself in worship. This optimism will be dampened by the health problems you'll have to cope in The Holy Land. Don't push yourself. Your body needs lots of rest to cope with these problems. Do what you can and move on. Your worship did not begin with The Hajj and is not going to end with it.

2.Most pilgrims will suffer from one or more of the following: sore throat, coughing, frequent sneezing, runny nose and fever. Bring enough supplies of over the counter medication. This will reduce the need to make frequent trips to the pharmacy and also your out of pocket expenses.

3. Take multivitamins daily as you may not be eating a balanced diet there.

4. If you have asthma, consult your doctor on the extra precautions you need to take as it is very dusty in many of the places you'll be visiting.

5. Avoid applying perfumes with strong smell when you go to The Mosque. Have a heart for those with medical conditions like asthma and migraine. Strong smells are associated with migraine and asthma attacks. When you consider the well-being of others in your actions, The Almighty will be pleased and insha Allah, reward you. [Perfumes are prohibited in the state of ihram.]

6. The Hajj pilgrimage involves a lot of walking. If you don't go for daily walks, begin it well before your journey to The Holy Land. This will reduce the likelihood of getting muscle pulls and cramps. The tawaf, sa'ee, and the frequent daily walks to The Mosque will help to improve your health. Do not stop this habit of walking when you return home. You must to be in the best of health to concentrate fully on your worship wherever you are.

7. You are never more than a foot from another pilgrim when you are in Mecca during the peak period of the pilgrimage. Cover your nose and mouth with a mask when you leave your hotel/apartment to reduce the likelihood of infection. You can get a good quality washable mask (Price SR 7 to SR 9 per piece) at the pharmacies there.

8. If you wear glasses, bring along an extra pair, preferably one with a plastic frame. The likelihood of your glasses falling down and being stepped on by sudden movements of the crowd are high. As an additional cover, bring along your glass prescriptions as well. There are optical shops near The Mosque.
MY FAVORITE PIECE OF ADVICE EVER
9. Flatulence (passing of wind) is an important cause of the loss of wudu. In the crowd packed Holy Mosques, this can be a big problem. Avoid or reduce the intake of food that contribute to this problem. If this is a serious problem for you, consult your doctor. Both herbal and other medications [antacid antiflatulent] are now available to reduce the occurrence of flatulence.

10. The majority of pilgrims will be staying in rooms that will have 4 to 10 persons per room. If you snore loudly and continuously, you can make life miserable for you roommates. Don't expect them to show the same tolerance that your wife has shown all these years! Medication and treatment are now available for this condition. Consult your doctor. (Also, see http://www.beautyimpress.com)

11. Presently the Meningococcal Quadrivalent Vaccine ACYW-135 is mandatory for the pilgrim. This is not enough. Get a flu vaccine as well. Every protection that you can take to ensure good health during The Hajj should not be missed.

12. Have a dental check-up at least 2 months before your departure so that there is ample time for treatment and follow-ups. It is not nice to have a severe toothache while performing The Hajj!



Last edited by lotek on 11 Feb 2010 10:56, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: "They denied us the Hajj!"

Postby reverendmotherQ. » 11 Feb 2010 10:48

#9, best advice EVER. For any situation, really.

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Re: "They denied us the Hajj!"

Postby SandRider » 11 Feb 2010 12:00

it's easy (and logical) to understand ancient people considering meteorites "holy objects from the heavens"
and making a shrine of them - more sense than the invisible/portable spirit-god the Hebrews invented during
the Babylonian Captivity (altho that makes some sense,too - a very revolutionary idea - prior to that, a people's
god resided in a specific place, a holy mountain or in specific objects - conquering imperial armies relocated the
defeated to a new region, severing their relationship with their tribal god and thus weakening their will to resist
or rebel. the relocated became citizens of their new homeland, adopted local gods and lost their previous
identity - them Jews weren't havin' none of that shit.)

as to the deaths-by-crowds during hajj, this is due to the Arab (and asian sub-continent) refusal to understand
and implement the idea of "lines" ("ques" if you will ("tails" if you're Canadian)) .... when boarding a flight out of
the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, the procedure was like this -

1) KLM staff call for boarding
2) little brown people rush to the door, forming a shoving funnel
3) Saudi National Guardsmen armed with cute little submachineguns push the Paks & Indians back,
open a corridor and allow Saudi nationals to enter the gangway
4) little brown people shove their way thru the door
5) North American & European ex-pats wait another ten minutes, to allow the little brown people to
ooze their way into their seats in the back of the plane, then line up and board the plane in a calm,
orderly manner.
6) Filipino skilled laborers and the Filipino nurses board, already paired up for the mile high club ...
7) one hour later, the member of the Saudi Royal Family arrives and boards, and the plane pulls away from the terminal
8 ) as soon as the wheels are off the tarmac, big-breasted blond KLM stewardesses start pushing drink carts up the aisles
("up the aisles" literally, as the plane would still be climbing) and everybody starts getting extremely drunk - except the
Paks, who take that Islam stuff serious ...






{edit}
is there some way to stop eight/closed parens from appearing as 8) ?
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Re: "They denied us the Hajj!"

Postby A Thing of Eternity » 11 Feb 2010 12:50

SandRider wrote:...it's
as to the deaths-by-crowds during hajj, this is due to the Arab (and asian sub-continent) refusal to understand
and implement the idea of "lines" ("ques" if you will ("tails" if you're Canadian)) .... when boarding a flight out of...


No, we call them lines... :)
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Re: "They denied us the Hajj!"

Postby chanilover » 21 Feb 2010 09:33

And you spelt "queue" wrong.
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Re:

Postby A Little Galach » 06 Apr 2010 16:59

EsperandoAGodot wrote:Further, is it inconceivable, based on the Terminologist's wording, that the hajj does not mean precisely the same thing in 10,191 AG?


This was my intrepretation. The Hajj, like everything else (except the Jews) had evolved several times through the millenia. I don't remember Stilgar and the boys kneeling towards Mecca five times a day. I took it to read that somehow they had their freedom, peace and paradise taken.


If only the boys could have clarified that in the preequels...

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Re: Re:

Postby SandChigger » 06 Apr 2010 20:39

A Little Galach wrote:If only the boys could have clarified that in the preequels...

BAN HIM!!! :twisted:

:lol:
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Re: "They denied us the Hajj!"

Postby reverendmotherQ. » 18 Apr 2010 13:10

lol. If Frank had lived to write prequels, then he could have clarified. lol.
Ban him? lol. Apparently we live in a dictatorship.
:D

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Re: "They denied us the Hajj!"

Postby SandChigger » 18 Apr 2010 20:32

Nah, not really.

It's just that sometimes some of us get nostalgic for the old days on DumbNovels! :laughing-rolling:
I have heard of only one mistake that doesn’t have an explanation for a careful reader...with an open mind. (And, no, I’m not going to tell you what it is!) —KJA

I don't like every writer's style; for instance, I have never been able to get through Ursula LeGuin, China Mieville, or Iain Banks, all of whom are critical darlings. —KJA

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Re: "They denied us the Hajj!"

Postby lotek » 19 Apr 2010 06:14

well it seems I am on the brink of arousing the ire of the almighty idiot :)

But at least he started the argument by posting a link to a literary critic's paper that kind of slacks of the unholy pair(what a douchebag)
but in the end it is funny since it seems there is not that many active posters on dungnovels of the ultra future, he will soon be trying to decide if Erasmhoumous could best the fenring daughter at Yahtzee :lol: ...

... on his own!
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Re: "They denied us the Hajj!"

Postby Onasander » 07 May 2010 02:06

Men in our society no longer go on quests or pilgrimages. We have lost that which is most essential to us, the center of our humanity, and our link to the greater universe. It is not of concern as long as time are good, but when bad times come, we run about in a manner very similar to that of a headless chicken. War and blind violence becomes the only recourse in such circumstances, it's the only path we have left to rise above the deadening strains clothing in on us collectively, strangling us, tearing us apart- allowing for a select aristocracy to break lose and allow us to reform anew. We are becoming a petty people, reminiscent of the fools from Idiocracy in our judgments and pronouncements of those who are different, of those things essential we no longer comprehend, and yet are fascinated enough with to make a topic of repeated discussion. Our snideness and black humor, so ever the more crude, hide our own internal elections, our own evaluation..... we think we are reinforcing and bonding- we are only partaking in this common lie- the lie of life..... of continuation. Such a truth stands of it's own merits, and needs not the be spoken... what it is saying indeed is it's opposite- that which we are drawn to in fear and antagonism, that we are dying- that we must stamp this fear out together in numbers and brutality- and it will be difficult.

I have considerably respect for the Hajj. I guarded the Shiites in Iraq during their pilgrimage- and it's wasn't one to Mecca. Many societies, many nations have their pilgrimage, their own Hajj. The closest we have in the US is walking before the Lincoln Memorial- I have seen many 'agnostics' weep before it- from around the nation- and world- I spent a new years there- the place is sacred to me. I have my monastery I visit quite often as well, and I have traveled great distances to visit it, upwards 3,500 miles once (do the math on a map of north america- I lived in Alaska then).

It's cute and funny- for the very reasons why I mentioned above- but your only showing your own decay, your own inabilities to cope not just on the level of the individual, but also as a society. A pilgrimage changes you, I have seen many changed by it.

The Kaaba is not carved out of the spacerock- it is taken from the nearby hill. Yes- only muslims can go on pilgrimage, I have a few friends who went last year.... anyone on this forum foolish enough to think it's a busride in, plop them down to walk around the Kaaba, and then your out has a deep ignorance of what the Hajj is- the vast majority of it is taken on foot, comprises many camps, days of walking- visiting multiple sites. The Saudi's have done a amazing job of building it all up- and each nation get's it's own campground (as they travel in packs, and even tour groups). Poverty is expected in the journey- even though luxury is allowed in some camps- but all travel on foot who can do so. It's not mandatory- anyone can get out of it- no one is ever going to be forced on the Hajj.... it's a honor- Hajj is a title given to one who has completed such a pilgrimage.... but it's not the only such pilgrimage in Islam, only the greatest- and Islam hardly has a monopoly on it- not even the lead stake in it- Hinduism easily triumphs it.

Now- the transportation TO and OUT of Saudi Arabia can be absolutely horrible.... but that has nothing to do with the Saudis, anymore than the Titanic or all the other passenger ships that carried the immigrants to the new world was a American problem. People really want to go, and will go anyway they can. Businessmen suck- but even when they suck, this doesn't mean their not honest or open about it- it's not like it's a secret to any Muslim you get on a 6th class passenger boat- your life is going to suck worst than in a slave galley for quite some time. This is none essential though- the Hajj is essential. I am afraid as a culture, we've become so debilitated that such things so crucially essential, the nature of the endeavor, and it's place in the unfolding of the human soul and intellect is remote and alien to us at best. We look at the Arthurian legends of quests with romanticism only in childhood, and boredom in your adulthood. Disaster strikes, men look to the government- and unprepared men not knowing what to do. We are setting a course for disaster, a reliance on little, untested men quick to the gun, unknowing of the self and the capacity of man to strive independent, unified, and assured that of any consequence, good or bad, we will get there.

It's obvious we have this void within us....... it's exploited so often in modern times. :Adolf:

when will we grow to a point of yearning, or searching, or endeavoring once again?

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Re: "They denied us the Hajj!"

Postby merkin muffley » 07 May 2010 07:15

Onasander wrote:It is not of concern as long as time are good, but when bad times come, we run about in a manner very similar to that of a headless chicken.

I have considerably respect for the Hajj. I have my monastery I visit quite often as well, and I have traveled great distances to visit it, upwards 3,500 miles once (do the math on a map of north america- I lived in Alaska then).

.... anyone on this forum foolish enough to think it's a busride in, plop them down to walk around the Kaaba, and then your out has a deep ignorance of what the Hajj is.

It's obvious we have this void within us....... it's exploited so often in modern times. :Adolf:


That is genius! Has anyone ever gone on Hajj with you and, on the way, suddenly dug a hole in the sand and buried their own head before they reached the Ka'aba?
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Re: "They denied us the Hajj!"

Postby SandRider » 07 May 2010 09:47

well .... mebbee you're (sry, your) right ... after all, my experience with the Middle East and the Saudis
in particular only comes from living & working there for ten years in the 70s&80s, then back and forth a dozen
times in the 90s on shorter-term projects .... and from my experience with the army, I guess they are the
best source of information and opinions regarding the indigenous populations of whatever country your firebase
is in ....

BTW, the rock's a fucking meteorite, you facetious tool ...
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Re: "They denied us the Hajj!"

Postby SandChigger » 07 May 2010 10:09

merkin muffley wrote:That is genius! Has anyone ever gone on Hajj with you and, on the way, suddenly dug a hole in the sand and buried their own head before they reached the Ka'aba?

:lol: :clap: :clap: :clap:

...it's the only path we have left to rise above the deadening strains clothing in on us collectively, strangling us, tearing us apart-

STELLA!!! :angry-screaming:

Seriously, "clothing in on us"? :laughing:

I'm really sorry that you got battle-fatigued or shell-shocked or whatever in service of the country, but no amount of respect for the sacrifices of our military personnel is going to prevent me from laughing at you, you fucking pretentious moron.

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Re: "They denied us the Hajj!"

Postby chanilover » 11 May 2010 11:40

Do people really weep at the Lincoln Memorial? :lol: I suppose they do the same at Graceland.
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Re: "They denied us the Hajj!"

Postby Freakzilla » 11 May 2010 11:51

chanilover wrote:Do people really weep at the Lincoln Memorial? :lol: I suppose they do the same at Graceland.


I cry when I hear our national anthem, I can't imagine what I'd do in Washington DC. :cry:
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Re: "They denied us the Hajj!"

Postby TheDukester » 11 May 2010 12:44

chanilover wrote:Do people really weep at the Lincoln Memorial?

Many Americans are surprisingly sentimental. I'm not sure where it comes from, but it will come out at odd times and in odd places.
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Re: "They denied us the Hajj!"

Postby Nekhrun » 11 May 2010 12:46

TheDukester wrote:Many Americans are surprisingly sentimental. I'm not sure where it comes from...

Guilt
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Re: "They denied us the Hajj!"

Postby merkin muffley » 11 May 2010 12:56

TheDukester wrote:
chanilover wrote:Do people really weep at the Lincoln Memorial?

Many Americans are surprisingly sentimental. I'm not sure where it comes from, but it will come out at odd times and in odd places.


I masturbated at the Lincoln Memorial.









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Re: "They denied us the Hajj!"

Postby SandChigger » 11 May 2010 13:52

TheDukester wrote:Many Americans are surprisingly sentimental. I'm not sure where it comes from, but it will come out at odd times and in odd places.

It's the silicon cooking utensils aisle in Walmart that does it for me.

Every frickin' time, I mean ... oh GAWD! :cry:


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