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    High-Opp

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      Non-Dune Frank Herbert Book Discussion

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    Re: High-Opp

    Postby lotek » 11 May 2012 07:53

    Indeed, short and direct message, straight to the point.

    That was funny too ^^
    Incidentally, may I ask why you published it through an ebook-only vanity press?
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    Re: High-Opp

    Postby SandRider » 11 May 2012 10:57

    I wonder how Byron felt being bitch-slapped by the moderator for spamming ?
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    Re: High-Opp

    Postby Mr. Teg » 11 May 2012 19:49

    SandRider wrote:I wonder how Byron felt being bitch-slapped by the moderator for spamming ?


    Squelled with glee.
    After years ass KJA's bitch...


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    Re: High-Opp

    Postby Nekhrun » 11 May 2012 19:55

    I loved everything about that thread. Especially Byron (Frank Herbert's grandson) justifying why it wasn't published in another format. :lol:
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    Re: High-Opp

    Postby D Pope » 15 May 2012 15:37

    D Pope wrote:I disagree;
    I think he's trying to start publishing-
    he's gotten popular enough to believe he's worth a larger share and the collaboration train is running out of gravy.
    If e-publishing takes off in any realistic way, steve will be an award winning nominee media mogul.

    Leto II is gone for good, except for OM. The "pearl" was just that; a miniscule portion of what Leto was, and not a compressed version of the whole. The pearl that the worms have do not make them Leto, or in any way similar to him.
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    Re: High-Opp

    Postby D Pope » 15 May 2012 17:13

    <chapter 1, a promo from teh blog>

    People averting their faces as they walked past the office door finally wore through his numbness. Daniel Movius
    began to clench and unclench his fists. He jerked out of his chair, strode to the window, stared at the morning
    light on the river.

    Far out across the river, in silver layers up the Council Hills, he could see the fluting, inverted stalagmites of the
    High-Opp apartments. And down below them, the drabness, the smoke, the dismal carpet of factories and Warrens.

    Back into that? Damn them!

    Footsteps. Movius whirled.

    A man walked past the door, examined the blank opposite wall of the corridor. Movius raged inwardly. Sephus!
    You son of a Sep! A woman followed. Bista! I’d as soon make love to a skunk!

    Yet only yesterday she had made courting gestures, bending toward him over her desk to show the curves under
    the light green coveralls.

    He hurled himself into his chair, sent the angry thoughts after them, the words he dared not use. “Avert your
    faces, you clogs! Don’t look at me!”

    Another thought intruded. In Roper’s name, where was Cecelia? Was she another averted face?

    Two men appeared in the doorway pushing a handcart loaded with boxes. Movius did not recognize them, but
    the LP above their lapel numbers told him. Workers. Labor Pool rabbits. But now he was one of the rabbits.
    Back into the LP. No more special foods at the restricted restaurants, no more extra credit allowance, no Upper
    Rank apartment, no car, no driver, no more courting gestures from such as Bista. Today, he was Daniel Movius,
    EX-Senior Liaitor.

    One of the workmen at the door coughed, looked at the desk plaque which Movius had not yet removed.
    “Excuse me, sir.”

    “Yes?” His voice still held its tone of command.

    The workman swallowed. “We were told to move the Liaitor files to storage. Is this…”

    He could see the workmen’s manner change. “Well, if you’ll excuse us, we have work to do.” The men
    came in with an overplayed clatter of officiousness, banging the handcart against the desk. They turned
    their backs on him, began emptying files into boxes.

    Stupid low-opp rabbits!

    Movius finished dumping the contents of his desk drawers into the wastebasket, topped the pile with
    his name plaque. He saved only a sheet of pale red paper. The message chute had disgorged the paper
    onto his desk less than an hour ago, as he’d been sorting the morning mail.

    “Opinion SD22240368523ZX:

    “On this date, the Stackman Absolute Sample having been consulted, the governmental function of
    Liaitor is declared abolished.

    “The Question:

    “For tax economy reasons, would you favor elimination of the supernumerary department of Liaitor?

    “Yes: 79.238 percentum.

    “No: .647 percentum.

    “Undecided: 20.115 percentum.

    “May the Majority rule.”

    With motions of thinly suppressed violence, Movius folded the paper, thrust it into a pocket.
    “For tax economy reasons!” They could get a yes-opp matricide for tax economy reasons!

    One last look around the office. It was a big place, scaled for a large man, an orderliness to it under the
    apparently random placement of desk, filing cabinets, piled baskets of papers. There was a smell about the
    room of oily furniture polish and that kind of bitter chemical odor found in the presence of much paper. It
    was a room with an air of dedication and no doubt about it. Dedication to quadruplicate copies and
    the-right-way-of-doing-the-job.

    Movius noted that his phone had been dislodged from its cradle beside the desk. He replaced it, ran a hand
    through his stubble of close-cropped sandy hair, unwilling now that the moment had come, to say goodbye to
    this space in which he had worked four years. The room fitted him like an old saddle or like the body marks
    in a long-used bed. He had worn his grooves into the place.

    Low-opped! And with so much unfinished work. Bu-Opp and Bu-Q were going to be at each others throats
    before the month was out. The government was damned soon going to find out it had need for Liaison.
    The bureaus were too jealous of their domains.

    Damn them!

    He stared at the workmen. They had cleared two files, were emptying a third. Movius was ignored; another
    discard to be stored away and forgotten. He wanted to fling himself on the men, knock them into a corner,
    scatter the papers, wreck things, tear things, destroy. He turned and walked quietly out of the office, out of
    the building.

    On the front steps he paused, his eyes seeking out his parking slot in the third row. There was Navvy London,
    the driver, leaning against the familiar black scarab shape of the car. THE CAR—a primary token of authority.
    Sunlight shimmered on the flat antenna which spanned the curving roof. Movius looked up to the left where
    the scintillant red relay ship hovered above the spire of the prime generator, sending out its invisible flagellae
    of communication and energy beams from which the city sucked its power.

    He wished for the strength to hurl all of his pent-up curses at this symbol of authority. Instead, he lowered
    his eyes, again sought out the car, that tiny extension of the relay ship. Navvy leaned against the grill in his
    characteristic slouch, reading a book—one of those inevitably deep things he always carried. The driver
    pulled at his lower lip with thumb and forefinger, turned a page. Movius suspected that some of Navvy’s
    books were on the contraband lists, but the man was the kind to carry it off. A look of youthful innocence in
    his brown eyes, a wisp of black hair down across his forehead to heighten the effect. “A contraband book,
    sir? Great Gallup! I didn’t think there were any more of those things drifting about. Thought the government
    had burned them all. Fellow handed it to me on the street the other day when I asked what he was reading.”

    Seeing Navvy brought back a disquieting thought: How had Navvy known about the low-opp? How did a
    Labor Pool driver get official information before it became official?

    Movius slipped between the First Rank cars, the Second Rank cars, slowed his pace as he approached the
    relaxed figure of the driver.

    Navvy sensed Movius’ presence, looked up, pushed himself away from the car. His young-old face became
    contemplative. “Now do you believe me, sir?”

    Movius drew a deep breath. “How did you know?”

    The contemplative look was replaced by casualness. “It came over the LP grapevine.”

    “That’s what you said before. I want to know how.”

    “Maybe you’ll find out now that you’re an LP,” said Navvy. He turned toward the car. “Anyplace I can
    take you? They haven’t assigned me yet. They’re still upstairs wrangling over who’ll get my carcass.”

    “I’m no longer privileged, Navvy. It’s forbidden.”

    “So it’s forbidden.” He opened the rear door of the car. “They know where they can put their forbiddens.
    One last ride for old time’s sake.”

    Why not? thought Movius. He shrugged, slipped into the car, felt the solid assurance of the slamming
    door. Navvy took his place in front.

    “Where to, sir?”

    “The apartment, I guess.”

    Navvy flicked the power-receiver switch, turned to back the car from its slot. Movius watched the
    concentration on the man’s face. That was one of Navvy’s secrets, a power of concentration, of
    storing up. But what about the other secret?

    “Why won’t you tell me how you came by the information?”

    “You’d only accuse me of being a separatist again.”

    Movius felt a humorless smile twitch at his lips, remembering their conversation that morning on the
    way from the apartment. Navvy had said, “Sir, probably I shouldn’t be talking, but I’ve word they’re
    going to low-opp you today.”

    It had been an ice-water statement, doubly confusing because it came from his driver, someone like
    an extension of the car.

    “Nonsense! Silly scuttlebutt!”

    “No, sir. It’s over the grapevine. The question was put on the eight o’clock.”

    Movius glanced at his watch. Ten minutes to nine. They almost always were passing the Bu-Psych
    Building about this time. He turned. There was the grey stone pile, early workers streaming up the
    steps.

    A question on the eight o’clock? Movius could picture the returns ticking into the computers—
    Shanghai, Rangoon, Paris, New York, Moscow… The Comp Section, working at top speed, could
    have results in two hours. It was impossible that anyone could know the results of an eight o’clock
    before ten. He explained this fact to Navvy.

    “You’ll see,” said Navvy. “Those autocratic High-Opps have you picked for the long slide down.”

    And Movius remembered he had chuckled. “The government doesn’t function that way, Navvy.
    Majority opinion rules.”

    What a trite set of mouthing’s those were when he thought back on them. Right out of the
    approved history books. Right out of the Bureau of Information blathering. But these thoughts
    brought a sense of uneasiness. He twisted his lapel, looked down at the pale mauve and white
    of his coveralls, code colors for Tertiary Bureau heads. All of his clothes would have to be dyed.
    He fingered his identification number on the lapel, the red T stitched above the number.
    That would be ripped off, LP replacing it.

    Labor Pool! Damn them!

    Penalty service could scarcely be worse.

    The car was climbing through the privileged section now, Gothic canyons of silvery stone
    interspersed with green parks. There was an air of seclusion and reserved quiet in the privileged
    sections never found in the bawdy scrambling of the Warrens.

    Movius wondered if the word already was out to his apartment manager.




    ...
    Leto II is gone for good, except for OM. The "pearl" was just that; a miniscule portion of what Leto was, and not a compressed version of the whole. The pearl that the worms have do not make them Leto, or in any way similar to him.
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    Re: High-Opp

    Postby Freakzilla » 15 May 2012 18:00

    I stopped at the first paragraph, FH would have told us what color the light was AND what color the river was.
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    Re: High-Opp

    Postby Serkanner » 16 May 2012 02:47

    Freakzilla wrote:I stopped at the first paragraph, FH would have told us what color the light was AND what color the river was.


    Vermillion?
    "... the mystery of life isn't a problem to solve but a reality to experience."

    “There is no escape—we pay for the violence of our ancestors.”

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    Re: High-Opp

    Postby Freakzilla » 16 May 2012 06:10

    Serkanner wrote:
    Freakzilla wrote:I stopped at the first paragraph, FH would have told us what color the light was AND what color the river was.


    Vermillion?


    Viridian :wink:
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    Re: High-Opp

    Postby D Pope » 16 May 2012 07:02

    Freakzilla wrote:
    Serkanner wrote:
    Freakzilla wrote:I stopped at the first paragraph, FH would have told us what color the light was AND what color the river was.


    Vermillion?


    Viridian :wink:

    Instance of editing?
    Now for the real question, is this something the hack could have hiked?
    To clarify, could kj have fabricated this and marketed under a sacred name?
    Speculations- ratio of real/kj?
    Leto II is gone for good, except for OM. The "pearl" was just that; a miniscule portion of what Leto was, and not a compressed version of the whole. The pearl that the worms have do not make them Leto, or in any way similar to him.
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    Re: High-Opp

    Postby DuneFishUK » 16 May 2012 15:49

    A few more pages here: http://www.smashwords.com/extreader/rea ... 7/high-opp

    ---

    It's an unfinished draft that FH decided against progressing any further.

    I stand by my thinking that KJA's influence is safely contained by his ultra rush-job work ethic: he corrected some the typist's transcription errors and at worst tweaked the word order in a couple of places. It is still an unfinished draft that FH decided against progressing any further.

    (Although I would like to see a Wordfire edition/Fullerton edition comparison one day :) just in case)
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    Re: High-Opp

    Postby Ampoliros » 16 May 2012 16:16

    That is unfinished Frank Herbert, not KJA theft. You can tell someone thought about that and how the character was feeling. I can tell from the first sentence that KJA didn't write it.
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    Re: High-Opp

    Postby Hunchback Jack » 18 May 2012 20:10

    It's definitely not KJA. There's no infodump in the first few paragraphs to tell us everything about the main character's situation, thoughts, feelings and relationships to other characters to we don't have to guess.

    May be KJA-edited, tho. I see more adjectives than I expected.

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    Re: High-Opp

    Postby Mr. Teg » 19 May 2012 18:03

    The original draft could be part of the Fullerton collection.

    Omph?
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    Re: High-Opp

    Postby Omphalos » 19 May 2012 19:20

    Mr. Teg wrote:The original draft could be part of the Fullerton collection.

    Omph?


    It's there. At least, it was there the lat time I was.
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    Re: High-Opp

    Postby Freakzilla » 20 May 2012 04:52

    The two would make for a VERY interesting comparison and contrast. :twisted:
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    Re: High-Opp

    Postby ᴶᵛᵀᴬ » 20 May 2012 07:17

    Omphalos wrote:
    Mr. Teg wrote:The original draft could be part of the Fullerton collection.

    Omph?


    It's there. At least, it was there the lat time I was.


      OPUS NUMBER HOLDINGS
            Unpublished novel & short stories
                  • High-opp
                    Unpublished short story [related to A Game of Authors?]
                    • Correspondence, 2 pieces, dated: 1954
                    • Working notes, 2 leaves
                    • Miscellaneous typescript-carbon : Leaves: 1-94; 96-183 + revision insert


                    • A Game of Authors
                      Unpublished short story
                      • Correspondence, 4 pieces, dated: 1957
                      • Miscellaneous typescript-carbon, 16 leaves


          source
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          Re: High-Opp

          Postby Mr. Teg » 20 May 2012 20:38

          Nice.
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          Re: High-Opp

          Postby Ampoliros » 20 May 2012 21:41

          wtf? why did it repost the entire first page?

          And:

          I would say that a hard-print published author switching to the format that helps a "struggling new un-published" author to get their first break isn't something to brag about. I think it stinks of losing status, not staying ahead of the curve. I.e. you don't do radical shifts in how you do business when things are working out.

          Makes you think how bad TOR wants new KJA stuff if this is the route they are going. I think KJA is demanding more money deserving of his "Bestseller" status, and TOR is laughing in his face, and crying over the actual sales numbers.

          I'd have to say that KJA needs to get on his knees and thank TOR for their marketing.

          If the trend holds, the next Dune book probably won't be on the bestseller list at all.
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          Re: High-Opp

          Postby Serkanner » 21 May 2012 12:06

          Ampoliros wrote:wtf? why did it repost the entire first page?

          And:

          I would say that a hard-print published author switching to the format that helps a "struggling new un-published" author to get their first break isn't something to brag about. I think it stinks of losing status, not staying ahead of the curve. I.e. you don't do radical shifts in how you do business when things are working out.

          Makes you think how bad TOR wants new KJA stuff if this is the route they are going. I think KJA is demanding more money deserving of his "Bestseller" status, and TOR is laughing in his face, and crying over the actual sales numbers.

          I'd have to say that KJA needs to get on his knees and thank TOR for their marketing.

          If the trend holds, the next Dune book probably won't be on the bestseller list at all.


          His latest brilliant piece of regurgitated cow dung is also not published by TOR but will be by "http://www.kensingtonbooks.com/" ... a specialist in :puke:
          "... the mystery of life isn't a problem to solve but a reality to experience."

          “There is no escape—we pay for the violence of our ancestors.”

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          Re: High-Opp

          Postby DuneFishUK » 21 May 2012 12:39

          Competitive marketing strategies are Kensington's hallmark. We pioneered the use of 3-D and holographic covers.

          Perfect! :lol:
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          Re: High-Opp

          Postby Ampoliros » 21 May 2012 18:14

          The sad part is that even the 'Zombie P.I.' thing isn't original. I came across another series like it the other day.

          Oh and anyone notice the link to his 'original short story "The Ghost of Christmas Always".

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          Re: High-Opp

          Postby Cpt. Aramsham » 27 Dec 2012 14:17

          I'm sorry to see that the thread degenerated from a discussion of the actual book to the same old KJA-bashing. (Honestly guys, do you never get sick of it?) Anyway, I read it over the holidays, so I'll give some impressions from the POV of a Dune fan.

          So, as a novel (or novella), it's not very good. It's clearly FH, but obviously an early draft of a not-very-promising book: it's noticeably underdeveloped, unfinished and unpolished. It jumps around a lot, with many "chapters" only one or two pages long (while some of the longer ones go on for more than twenty), and major developments are glossed over. But even if the storytelling and writing were improved, it would still be an odd, and very slight, adventure. There's a reason FH abandoned it.

          It does have some interest for foreshadowing some motifs and themes developed in more depth in Dune. (Spoilers follow!)

          Several themes, motifs and plot points prefigure similar elements in Dune. The main character, Daniel Movius, is a high-ranking government functionary who has his rank stripped through treachery and is forced out into a dangerous world to make alliances with (and become the leader of) a group of rebels. He finds a weak spot in the current system and uses it to engineer an easy victory over government forces and make himself Emperor. So he's sort of a composite of Duke Leto and Paul. The similarities to Leto are even stronger if you look at the early Dune outline where Linkam (proto-Leto) is a former Group Control Administrator, "a half-mad genius of project motivation," which sounds a lot like Movius's job as a Senior Liaitor (sort of an organizer, mediator and fixer between government departments), and his genius for getting others to come to a mutually agreeable decision and do as he suggests.

          Similarly, the idea that civilization is headed towards a crisis that only a very special individual can do anything about is reminiscent of the race-consciousness of the coming Jihad in Dune, and the group of people looking for that individual to use for their own ends are perhaps one of the ideas that evolved into the Bene Gesserit. In this book, the Bu-Psych analysts and their predictions for the end of their civilization are pretty much plagiarized from the psychohistorians of Asimov's Foundation series, making that influence on Dune even more apparent. (High-Opp also lifts liberally from Brave New World and Nineteen Eighty-Four.) The strict hierarchy of ranks, duties and privileges echoes BNW, but also hints towards the faufreluches caste system: "A place for every man and every man in his place."

          FH seems to have reused some specific plot points for Dune, such as one of the hero's family members being taken hostage and possibly killed on the eve of victory (Alia and young Leto in Dune - in earlier drafts FH intended Alia to be killed; Movius's wife in High-Opp). There's a scene where one of his men has gone rogue and threatens to kill either Movius (or his wife when she steps between them), and he has to talk him down, which may have been the template for Gurney's attempt on Jessica's life in Dune.

          And then there's this bit, from Chapter 10:

          Helmut Glass, his square face set in an angry frown, paced his office atop the Com-Burs Building. It was a sybarite's office - soft carpets, chairs with deep cushions, a bar in the corner, dark paneling. An aroma of some wood perfume mingled in the air with the smoky residue of rare tobacco.

          Across from Glass, on a coffee-brown leather couch, sat Loren Addington, director of the Bureau of Control. A fat man with puffy sadistic eyes which he hid behind thick lenses. A red toupee, obvious in its false youthfulness, replaced his lost hair.

          Beside Addington sat Rafe Newton, whose youth fitted the pale reddish cast of his hair. Someday he might have eyes like his uncle, Helmut Glass - hard and unforgiving - and a fat body like his fifth cousin, Loren Addington. Now he had the look of a hungry wolf waiting for one of his pack mates to stumble.

          In this trio we can clearly recognize prototypes of Baron Harkonnen, Beast Rabban and Feyd-Rautha, and in the writing, the corresponding section in Dune.

          Other points worth considering include whether the corrupt elite that manipulates opinion polls through clever wording (an example of FH's fascination with this topic that's also expressed in BG abilities, particularly the Voice) could be linked to "Once men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them." If High-Opp is in some ways a view of the world FH envisioned pre-Butlerian Jihad, did Movius in some way influence BH and KJA to come up with Omnius? (Admittedly unlikely, given their version of what the Great Revolt was about.)

          What's most striking to me about High-Opp is how much of a straight-up power fantasy it is. Daniel Movius is a regular Übermensch, a scientifically proven genius and savior who doesn't ever seem to break a sweat overthrowing the government and getting revenge on anyone who's ever wronged him (including his ex-fiancée, in a nastily rapey scene). The fact that after overthrowing the hollow shell of a nominal democracy, he is hailed by the oppressed masses and installs himself as Emperor is presented as entirely unproblematic. The moral of the story seems to be Bureaucracies Bad, Superheroes Good. It frankly comes across as pretty fascist, or at least "severely conservative."

          I don't know whether that's something FH would have addressed if he had expanded and revised his draft, or whether his skepticism toward hero-worship was developed later. (He often gave JFK as an example of this danger, and Kennedy's election fell between High-Opp and Dune.)
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          Re: High-Opp

          Postby D Pope » 27 Dec 2012 20:38

          Cpt. Aramsham wrote:If High-Opp is in some ways a view of the world FH envisioned pre-Butlerian Jihad, did Movius in some way influence BH and KJA to come up with Omnius?

          No, but I don't want to sound like I'm speaking ill of kja.
          Brian repeatedly whines/brags about the difficulties he faced compiling his Dune-at-a-glance reference,
          if he had time for anything else I doubt that he'd have spent it on non-Dune material. In my opinion, High
          Op was discovered during a search for new fuel to feed to the decelerating Dune cash train.
          You do know that kevin is a publisher now...
          Leto II is gone for good, except for OM. The "pearl" was just that; a miniscule portion of what Leto was, and not a compressed version of the whole. The pearl that the worms have do not make them Leto, or in any way similar to him.
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          Re: High-Opp

          Postby Mr. Teg » 28 Dec 2012 00:14

          No one has read HO yet.
          I don't think the thread has degenerated.
          I am interested by the various comparisons you posted.
          Actually, I really want to compare with the version in Fullerton if it is still in the archives and not permanent "loan" status to dumb and dumber.

          Do you think Frank is saying bureaucracies bad, superheroes good or bureaucracies lead to fascism?
          I wouldn't be surprised if Frank read Hayek or Paterson. If HO really follows Dune then he may have envisioned a Dune Messiah closure but never got around to it.
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