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    Pandora Series

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      Non-Dune Frank Herbert Book Discussion

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    Pandora Series

    Postby A Thing of Eternity » 09 Apr 2008 17:17

    Has anyone read the Pandora series? Definitely my second favorite body of work by Frank Herbert. Rivals Dune.

    Destination: Void
    The Jesus Incident
    The Lazarus Effect
    The Ascension Factor

    Huge respect for Bill Ransom, who co-authored the last three books, and actually finished writing the last one by himself after FH passed away.
    I always thought that if anyone could convincingly write the final Dune it would be him.
    Last edited by A Thing of Eternity on 10 Apr 2008 00:34, edited 1 time in total.
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    Postby Serkanner » 09 Apr 2008 17:36

    I share your passion about the series. I loved Ship as a character and was a bit disappointed later in the series that Frank didn't make more use of the possibilities of the character.

    Bill Ransom did a great job finishing the last book in the series and is miles ahead of the morons that are writing the "official" books.
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    Postby A Thing of Eternity » 09 Apr 2008 18:11

    Spoiler alert.

    I kept waiting for ship to come back too... but in the end I think it was for the best because that was Ship's point, that humans are better without gods.

    I personally couldn't tell (by the style) that it wasn't Frank writing it, although I got the impression that Ransom actually did the bulk of the typing in this series anyways. It's pretty moving and kind of creepy at the same time to read that final book.
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    Postby Freakzilla » 09 Apr 2008 18:34

    I can't help but wonder if BH&KJA read at least D:V. I don't see how they could and create a character like Ominous.
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    Postby orald » 09 Apr 2008 18:54

    I think the series is more commonly known as the Pandora series.

    I've read all but The Ascension Factor which I started reading but left to read something else. I'll have to read it sometime.

    I think TJI is my favorite, followed by D:V(though that's one tough read) and TLE. Can't rank TAF yet but from the start and some peeking I did it's probably the same place as TLE.
    In memory of Perach, who suffered and died needlessly.

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    Postby A Thing of Eternity » 09 Apr 2008 19:09

    I have heard of it more commonly called the Pandora series. Sometimes I forget these things and just start making up terms. I agree TJI is my favorite, then TAF, TLE, and lastly Destination: Void, not because it's not great, it's just a painful read.
    FH is odd that way, his work shifts from serious to light-hearted, from soft-scifi (not soft in the political/social sciences though) to absurdly hard hard-scifi.
    The best view I've gotten of FH's amazing 'voice' control is in the short story Passage for Piano, or some of his detective stuff. You wouldn't know it was him writing if it didn't have his name on it. Masterful writer.
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    Postby orald » 09 Apr 2008 19:30

    I think TJI is the best because it has both worlds- both hard sci-fi and social sci-fi. It's also got Ship there, which is always a plus.

    After reading D:V I kinda went crazy. You know how you learn some new word or expression and repeat it too much?
    This was also perfect for me- You must decide how you will worShip me! :P

    BTW, you could edit your first post's title to change it. I think calling the thread The Pandora Series would be easier for people to identify before clicking on it.
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    Postby A Thing of Eternity » 10 Apr 2008 00:35

    Agreed and done.
    My brain also melted a bit after/during Void...
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    Postby Omphalos » 10 Apr 2008 01:01

    Omnius really is a pulp era computer/monster. I think it came from some 50's movie.
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    Postby A Thing of Eternity » 10 Apr 2008 01:09

    I think not only would have Ransom done a better job of Dune 7, he could have handled the Jihad more meaningfully as well, especially since he worked with FH on Ship and knew what FH would envision a machine mind to be like. Not in a million years would he have invented Omnius.
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    Postby Omphalos » 10 Apr 2008 01:12

    Ransom is writing poetry now. I think hes pretty damn old.
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    Postby SandChigger » 10 Apr 2008 04:33

    As Death creeps near
    All things in poetry
    Do seem...ooh, a penny!
    I have heard of only one mistake that doesn’t have an explanation for a careful reader...with an open mind. (And, no, I’m not going to tell you what it is!) —KJA

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    Postby Mr. Teg » 17 Apr 2008 00:08

    Freakzilla wrote:I can't help but wonder if BH&KJA read at least D:V. I don't see how they could and create a character like Ominous.


    I just finished reading Destination: Void (picked up the whole series at one used book store :D ) and after reading how Frank Herbert treats the subject of artificial inteligence, makes Pinky & the Brain look like a couple of morons, seriously!
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    Postby SandChigger » 17 Apr 2008 02:48

    THANK YOU! SOMEONE ELSE AGREES! :D

    (Hey, bring those back with you, OK? I want to read them again! ;) )
    I have heard of only one mistake that doesn’t have an explanation for a careful reader...with an open mind. (And, no, I’m not going to tell you what it is!) —KJA

    I don't like every writer's style; for instance, I have never been able to get through Ursula LeGuin, China Mieville, or Iain Banks, all of whom are critical darlings. —KJA

    I...had written a bunch of Star Wars and X-Files books...that proved not just that I'm a hack, but that I could write in somebody else's universe... —KJA
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    Postby Freakzilla » 17 Apr 2008 08:25

    I agree as well, if D:V is any indication of FH's idea of AI then the Omnius character is WAY off.
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    Postby A Thing of Eternity » 17 Apr 2008 10:29

    Mr. Teg wrote:
    Freakzilla wrote:I can't help but wonder if BH&KJA read at least D:V. I don't see how they could and create a character like Ominous.


    I just finished reading Destination: Void (picked up the whole series at one used book store :D ) and after reading how Frank Herbert treats the subject of artificial inteligence, makes Pinky & the Brain look like a couple of morons, seriously!


    Wait until you read The Jesus Incident. Then they really, really look bad.
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    Postby inhuien » 17 Apr 2008 11:24

    Omnius is a character? Wow, that is a NEWSFLASH, I thought the abomination was just a clusterfuck of clichés. :)
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    Postby orald » 17 Apr 2008 12:21

    Did he do that whole "Daisy, Daisy" fading away thing when they shut him down or whatever? :lol:

    Man, that "dying" scene is awsome.
    In memory of Perach, who suffered and died needlessly.

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    Postby Mr. Teg » 17 Apr 2008 23:56

    A Thing of Eternity wrote:I think not only would have Ransom done a better job of Dune 7, he could have handled the Jihad more meaningfully as well, especially since he worked with FH on Ship and knew what FH would envision a machine mind to be like. Not in a million years would he have invented Omnius.


    I agree. Unfortunately, I don't think Brian wanted to work with Ransom and gave McNeilly the cold shoulder (McNeilly had even wrote a sample chapter for the Butlerian Jihad, but never received a single reply. One day shortly afterwords...Brian gave a positive review for Ai! Perdito by Kevin J (Schwartz) Anderson, who shared the same affliction..er..affiliation, and the rest is history.)
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    Postby SandChigger » 18 Apr 2008 04:39

    MAY THE SCHWARTZ BE WITH YOU!

    :shock:
    I have heard of only one mistake that doesn’t have an explanation for a careful reader...with an open mind. (And, no, I’m not going to tell you what it is!) —KJA

    I don't like every writer's style; for instance, I have never been able to get through Ursula LeGuin, China Mieville, or Iain Banks, all of whom are critical darlings. —KJA

    I...had written a bunch of Star Wars and X-Files books...that proved not just that I'm a hack, but that I could write in somebody else's universe... —KJA
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    Postby Robspierre » 18 Apr 2008 14:48

    SandChigger wrote:MAY THE SCHWARTZ BE WITH YOU!

    :shock:




    SPACEBALLS the flamethrower!!!!!!!!!!


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    Postby SandChigger » 19 Apr 2008 00:51

    And that's how you out the rowdies. :D


    (I'm still chuckling over "a clusterfuck of clichés"! :lol: )
    I have heard of only one mistake that doesn’t have an explanation for a careful reader...with an open mind. (And, no, I’m not going to tell you what it is!) —KJA

    I don't like every writer's style; for instance, I have never been able to get through Ursula LeGuin, China Mieville, or Iain Banks, all of whom are critical darlings. —KJA

    I...had written a bunch of Star Wars and X-Files books...that proved not just that I'm a hack, but that I could write in somebody else's universe... —KJA
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    Postby Hunchback Jack » 17 Sep 2008 18:02

    What's the consensus about whether Destination: Void is in the Dune universe? Axolotl tanks are mentioned in D:V, which made me wonder.

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    Postby A Thing of Eternity » 17 Sep 2008 18:38

    Hunchback Jack wrote:What's the consensus about whether Destination: Void is in the Dune universe? Axolotl tanks are mentioned in D:V, which made me wonder.

    HBJ


    I guess it can't be entirely ruled out, just as we can't entirely rule out that we could be living in the matrix right now, or that there could be a big sky daddy.

    But I would say no, it's not in the Dune universe. Axolotl tanks is just spill-over. There are chair/bed dogs in the ConSentiency books, and that is definitely not in the Dune universe.
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    Postby Hunchback Jack » 17 Sep 2008 18:47

    A Thing of Eternity wrote: I guess it can't be entirely ruled out, just as we can't entirely rule out that we could be living in the matrix right now, or that there could be a big sky daddy.


    Ouch. Well, that put me in my place. ;)

    But I would say no, it's not in the Dune universe. Axolotl tanks is just spill-over. There are chair/bed dogs in the ConSentiency books, and that is definitely not in the Dune universe.


    Fair enough.

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