• Register
  • Login
  •          

    Pandora Series

    Image
      Non-Dune Frank Herbert Book Discussion

    Moderators: Omphalos, Freakzilla, ᴶᵛᵀᴬ, Mr. Teg

    Re: Pandora Series

    Postby A Thing of Eternity » 01 Oct 2009 15:12

    I'm not sure if that is the same as the first novel version of D:V, if it's different then I want that too. I do know that it was published as a book, and then years later FH re-wrote it and published it again.
    Image
    User avatar
    A Thing of Eternity
     
    Posts: 6090
    Joined: 08 Apr 2008 15:35
    Location: Calgary Alberta

    Re: Pandora Series

    Postby Serkanner » 01 Oct 2009 15:30

    A Thing of Eternity wrote:I'm not sure if that is the same as the first novel version of D:V, if it's different then I want that too. I do know that it was published as a book, and then years later FH re-wrote it and published it again.


    The version in GALAXY is from 1965.

    Often there are differences between a serialized book and the novelization. I wasn't aware Frank had re-written the novel "a second time" after the story had been published as a novel already in 1966. As far as I can "see" the version I have is a penguin paperback from 1985 so I assume its the "newer" version. Now I want the original one too ... second-hand stores, here I come!
    "... the mystery of life isn't a problem to solve but a reality to experience."

    “There is no escape—we pay for the violence of our ancestors.”

    Sandrider: "Keith went to Bobo's for a weekend of drinking, watched some DVDs,
    and wrote a Dune Novel."
    User avatar
    Serkanner
     
    Posts: 2805
    Joined: 17 Feb 2008 18:44
    Location: Den Haag - The Netherlands

    Re: Pandora Series

    Postby Arrrmanda » 01 Oct 2009 16:39

    Serkanner wrote:I wasn't aware Frank had re-written the novel "a second time" after the story had been published as a novel already in 1966. As far as I can "see" the version I have is a penguin paperback from 1985 so I assume its the "newer" version. Now I want the original one too ... second-hand stores, here I come!

    I'm looking at my copy now and on the copyright page it says this:

    A different version of this novel appeared in Galaxy, under the title "Do I Sleep or Wake."

    So I guess maybe the unedited edition is not in book form?

    I swear I read a quote from Herbert somewhere saying why he edited the book. Damn if I can't find it now though.

    EDIT: I'm dumb, it's on the back of the freaking book.
    Frank Herbert wrote:When the publishers announced that they were going to bring out a new edition of Destination: Void, they offered me the opportunity to make any changes I felt were necessary. Behind this story and rapid development in fields related to these premises, it would be extraordinary if discoveries across thirteen years did not dictate certain revisions. You will find, therefore, that this newly published version of Destination: Void contains significant additions, rewritten portions, changes in character development and certain deletions.


    See now that makes it sound like it was another book and I want it!
    User avatar
    Arrrmanda
     
    Posts: 107
    Joined: 29 Sep 2009 19:03

    Re: Pandora Series

    Postby A Thing of Eternity » 01 Oct 2009 16:56

    Arrrmanda wrote:
    Serkanner wrote:I wasn't aware Frank had re-written the novel "a second time" after the story had been published as a novel already in 1966. As far as I can "see" the version I have is a penguin paperback from 1985 so I assume its the "newer" version. Now I want the original one too ... second-hand stores, here I come!


    Frank Herbert wrote:When the publishers announced that they were going to bring out a new edition of Destination: Void, they offered me the opportunity to make any changes I felt were necessary. Behind this story and rapid development in fields related to these premises, it would be extraordinary if discoveries across thirteen years did not dictate certain revisions. You will find, therefore, that this newly published version of Destination: Void contains significant additions, rewritten portions, changes in character development and certain deletions.



    Yeah, that's what mine says too. I would expect the magazine version and first book version were pretty similar, but the one I have, like yours, is a massive rewrite according to the intro text.

    I'd love to find the original, just to see how much FH changed, and get an idea for why.
    Image
    User avatar
    A Thing of Eternity
     
    Posts: 6090
    Joined: 08 Apr 2008 15:35
    Location: Calgary Alberta

    Re: Pandora Series

    Postby Serkanner » 02 Oct 2009 02:35

    I agree. It will be a challenge to find the original version and then compare it with the one I already have.
    "... the mystery of life isn't a problem to solve but a reality to experience."

    “There is no escape—we pay for the violence of our ancestors.”

    Sandrider: "Keith went to Bobo's for a weekend of drinking, watched some DVDs,
    and wrote a Dune Novel."
    User avatar
    Serkanner
     
    Posts: 2805
    Joined: 17 Feb 2008 18:44
    Location: Den Haag - The Netherlands

    Re: Pandora Series

    Postby Freakzilla » 02 Oct 2009 20:21

    Any key differences that could easily be pointed out?

    I don't know which version I read, it's an ebook.
    Image
    Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
    ~Pink Snowman
    User avatar
    Freakzilla
    Lead Singer and Driver of the Winnebego
     
    Posts: 18061
    Joined: 05 Feb 2008 01:27
    Location: Atlanta, Georgia, USA

    Re: Pandora Series

    Postby Arrrmanda » 02 Oct 2009 20:44

    That's really hard to say. I know for sure he changed the basic technology. I'm sure computers changed a whole heck of a lot in 13 years, and I recall someone saying that the original book almost had laughable technology.

    As far as "changes in character development" and "certain deletions"...who knows what that means.

    Your e-book didn't have any info about where it came from?

    My book is kind of deceptive actually. Its got 1965 all over the copyright page and only says 1978 down toward the bottom. As far as I can tell, the original printing is called the Berkley Medallion edition. I'm going to look that up.
    User avatar
    Arrrmanda
     
    Posts: 107
    Joined: 29 Sep 2009 19:03

    Re: Pandora Series

    Postby Arrrmanda » 02 Oct 2009 20:48

    From what I can find, the earliest edition available in the US is 1970 which is the 5th edition. Amazon.co.uk has one from 1966 though.

    This site seems to have a lot of helpful links.
    http://www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/h/frank-herbert/destination-void.htm
    User avatar
    Arrrmanda
     
    Posts: 107
    Joined: 29 Sep 2009 19:03

    Re: Pandora Series

    Postby Freakzilla » 02 Oct 2009 21:02

    Arrrmanda wrote:Your e-book didn't have any info about where it came from?


    It wasn't the type of ebook that gives credit. :wink:
    Image
    Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
    ~Pink Snowman
    User avatar
    Freakzilla
    Lead Singer and Driver of the Winnebego
     
    Posts: 18061
    Joined: 05 Feb 2008 01:27
    Location: Atlanta, Georgia, USA

    Re: Pandora Series

    Postby Arrrmanda » 02 Oct 2009 21:10

    Ha.

    Man the more I scour Amazon, the more I find book sellers listing the 1978 revision as the 1966 5th edition. Freaking retards. I am going to check ebay. Shit, I may even end up paying 10 bucks for it! :shock:
    User avatar
    Arrrmanda
     
    Posts: 107
    Joined: 29 Sep 2009 19:03

    Re: Pandora Series

    Postby M.A.L » 12 Oct 2009 17:26

    I loved This series almost as much as Dune. I actually just finished reading it for the second time not to long ago.
    It's great, no matter how many times you read certain books, you always pick up something new.
    User avatar
    M.A.L
     
    Posts: 12
    Joined: 12 Oct 2009 05:01
    Location: Boston MA

    Re: Pandora Series

    Postby Hunchback Jack » 15 Oct 2009 16:00

    Arrrmanda wrote:Man the more I scour Amazon, the more I find book sellers listing the 1978 revision as the 1966 5th edition. Freaking retards. I am going to check ebay. Shit, I may even end up paying 10 bucks for it! :shock:


    Tried ABEbooks?

    HBJ
    "The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
    - Carl Sagan

    I'm still very proud of The Quarry but … let's face it; in the end the real best way to sign off would have been with a great big rollicking Culture novel.
    - Iain Banks
    User avatar
    Hunchback Jack
     
    Posts: 1982
    Joined: 30 May 2008 15:02
    Location: California, USA

    Re: Pandora Series

    Postby Arrrmanda » 16 Oct 2009 02:01

    I did check there actually. Found a copy in pretty good condition on ebay though, so I bought it quick. Hopefully it was worth it.
    User avatar
    Arrrmanda
     
    Posts: 107
    Joined: 29 Sep 2009 19:03

    Re: Pandora Series

    Postby nampigai » 15 Jan 2010 08:31

    sorry to bring this old lady back to life!

    I've been looking all over for these books but can't seem to find anything else than second hands - does anyone know if they aren't being printed anymore - if so I guess I'll have to settle with second hand.

    *edit

    I've found Jesus Incident.
    Do not be quick to reveal judgment. Hidden judgment is often more potent. It can guide reaction whose effects are felt only when too late to divert them.
    - Bene Gesserit Advice to Postulants
    User avatar
    nampigai
     
    Posts: 350
    Joined: 21 Oct 2009 12:18
    Location: Chapterhouse

    Re: Pandora Series

    Postby SadisticCynic » 15 Jan 2010 08:53

    I found The Jesus Incident new as well on Amazon. Destination: Void and The Lazarus Effect both came from Ebay though. I haven't found The Ascension Factor yet, though I haven't really been looking too hard.
    Ah English, the language where pretty much any word can have any meaning! - A Thing of Eternity
    User avatar
    SadisticCynic
     
    Posts: 2004
    Joined: 07 Apr 2009 09:28
    Location: In Time or in Space?

    Re: Pandora Series

    Postby DuneFishUK » 17 Jan 2010 17:37

    nampigai wrote:sorry to bring this old lady back to life!

    I've been looking all over for these books but can't seem to find anything else than second hands - does anyone know if they aren't being printed anymore - if so I guess I'll have to settle with second hand.

    *edit

    I've found Jesus Incident.

    LE and AF are out of print atm.

    I'm sure they'll reprint eventually (They released Dosadi in 2002, but Whipping Star had to wait till 2009 ... spot the deliberate mistake :P) but you'd be better off with some nice old editions - you don't want to support the HLP now do you :)
    User avatar
    DuneFishUK
     
    Posts: 1987
    Joined: 25 May 2008 14:14
    Location: Cool Britannia

    Re: Pandora Series

    Postby Cpt. Aramsham » 04 Oct 2013 08:42

    I bought an omnibus edition of the Pandora Sequence (published by Wordfire Press... yes, yes, boo hiss! and all that), and it has a preface by Bill Ransom where he describes the process by which he and Frank started working together. It answers a lot of the questions people had earlier in this thread.

    Basically, FH solicited Ransom's help on the rewrite of Destination: Void, to "put some of the mathematics into everyday English" (it's not quite clear whether Ransom was supposed to actually do the rewrite, or just act as an editor, suggesting things FH might want to change). So the two were already talking science fiction concepts when FH got involved with Harlan Ellison's Medea project. The idea for which was that a bunch of SF writers would come up with a world together by brainstorming in front of an audience (who could ask questions and pitch in suggestions), then go off and each write a story set on that planet. According to Ransom, some of the ideas FH contributed came from things the two of them had been discussing beforehand.

    Anyway, when FH was supposed to be writing his story, Bev fell ill (with what turned out to be cancer), and he didn't have time to work on it. So he asked Ransom to ghost-write it for him, in secret. Which he did (they brainstormed the story together, and Frank took a pass at it at the end to make it more his style, adding a bunch of stuff to the beginning and the end), and no one the wiser. That's "Songs of a Sentient Flute," published in Medea: Harlan's World. (That title! Well, that's Ellison for you! :roll: )

    The two enjoyed the collaboration so much that (encouraged by Bev) they decided to expand the concept into a novel. There was some concern over copyright, since it had originated in the Medea shared universe, so to strengthen FH's claim they had the idea to tie it in as a sequel to Destination: Void, and I guess change some of the incidental planetary detail. Medea became Pandora, and the book became The Jesus Incident.

    So the conclusion to all this is that "Songs of a Sentient Flute" is not officially set in the same universe as the Pandora series, but is definitely a precursor to it. And yes, there was a major rewrite of Destination: Void, which Bill Ransom contributed to to an unknown extent. I haven't read the novelette in question, so I don't know to what extent it got incorporated into The Jesus Incident or is its own, separate story.
    User avatar
    Cpt. Aramsham
     
    Posts: 90
    Joined: 06 Oct 2012 11:11

    Re:

    Postby Naïve mind » 06 Oct 2013 15:04

    Omphalos wrote:Omnius really is a pulp era computer/monster. I think it came from some 50's movie.


    Colossus: The Forbin Project?

    That being said, not having read the Butlerian Jihad novels (not having read anything but a bit of 'House Atreides', to be honest) I am increasingly curious about them.

    The way Omnius is described in outlines, as a giant distributed brain, regularly 'synchronizing' itself through slow-moving spaceships, is honestly interesting, and quite similar to the way big, decentralized "cloud" systems (think Facebook, Gmail, etc.) work nowadays. Minus the spaceships of course.
    User avatar
    Naïve mind
     
    Posts: 388
    Joined: 26 Aug 2012 05:58

    Re: Re:

    Postby Serkanner » 07 Oct 2013 06:00

    Naïve mind wrote:
    Omphalos wrote:Omnius really is a pulp era computer/monster. I think it came from some 50's movie.


    Colossus: The Forbin Project?

    That being said, not having read the Butlerian Jihad novels (not having read anything but a bit of 'House Atreides', to be honest) I am increasingly curious about them.



    You may have mine for cheap.
    "... the mystery of life isn't a problem to solve but a reality to experience."

    “There is no escape—we pay for the violence of our ancestors.”

    Sandrider: "Keith went to Bobo's for a weekend of drinking, watched some DVDs,
    and wrote a Dune Novel."
    User avatar
    Serkanner
     
    Posts: 2805
    Joined: 17 Feb 2008 18:44
    Location: Den Haag - The Netherlands

    Re: Re:

    Postby Naïve mind » 07 Oct 2013 15:09

    Serkanner wrote:You may have mine for cheap.


    Well, as long as the only fecal matter attached to them is the metaphorical verbal diarrhoea ...
    User avatar
    Naïve mind
     
    Posts: 388
    Joined: 26 Aug 2012 05:58

    Re: Re:

    Postby Serkanner » 07 Oct 2013 16:25

    Naïve mind wrote:
    Serkanner wrote:You may have mine for cheap.


    Well, as long as the only fecal matter attached to them is the metaphorical verbal diarrhoea ...


    My butt deserves better ...
    "... the mystery of life isn't a problem to solve but a reality to experience."

    “There is no escape—we pay for the violence of our ancestors.”

    Sandrider: "Keith went to Bobo's for a weekend of drinking, watched some DVDs,
    and wrote a Dune Novel."
    User avatar
    Serkanner
     
    Posts: 2805
    Joined: 17 Feb 2008 18:44
    Location: Den Haag - The Netherlands

    Re: Pandora Series

    Postby distrans » 16 Jan 2014 17:43

    read the series through several times
    not realizing destination void was the beginning

    was walking to a local store in riverside
    cart out front and destination void was right there for a dollar

    not the easiest read
    ox this and that

    finished it and dug out my copy of jesus

    the headers and notes made more sense...


    several things i dont get
    but to focus

    how does "god" have the nerve to state he will deprived of anyone???

    how can ships physic location
    canote anyone individual relations to "him"?!??!?

    doesnt make sense
    distrans
     
    Posts: 201
    Joined: 04 Jan 2013 01:06

    Re: Pandora Series

    Postby Smiley » 11 Dec 2014 03:30

    If I remember correctly, some of the changes in Void had to do with drugs and how they effect consciousness. I loved D:V much more than the others in the Pandora series. Kept wanting Ship to come back, but then again I was playing Marathon 2 at the time.

    It was one of my first exposures to questioning something that we take for granted: what does it mean to be conscious? We know that we are but often people don't question what it means. It's like gravity. Most people know it exists but when you tell them we might not be sure how it works, they just get confused. Stuff falls down. I think. What makes thinking and reasoning possible? Are we sure we are the only ones that can do it? Can a dog think, even if it is in a limited way?

    Cats can think. Just look at them. They are conspiring against you...
    User avatar
    Smiley
     
    Posts: 49
    Joined: 13 Nov 2014 21:16

    Re: Pandora Series

    Postby Freakzilla » 11 Dec 2014 12:57

    Image
    Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
    ~Pink Snowman
    User avatar
    Freakzilla
    Lead Singer and Driver of the Winnebego
     
    Posts: 18061
    Joined: 05 Feb 2008 01:27
    Location: Atlanta, Georgia, USA

    Re: Pandora Series

    Postby georgiedenbro » 12 Apr 2017 14:40

    I just finished a first-time read of The Jesus Incident after having finished a second read-through of D:Void. I have to say it was a bit tough to get through. Stylistically it doesn't have the same feel as a book written entirely by FH, and I also felt it was beating around the bush quite a lot in getting to the theme in its culmination. The mystery of the kelp seemed to be built up so much that towards the end it was almost plainly obvious what the answer would be.

    That being said, this book has a lot in common with Dan Simmons' Hyperion series - most notably the last couple of books. Most notably, my hypothesis that FH subscribes to the same esoteric school of thought as Simmons has mostly been validated by TJI. D:Void hinted at the idea that true consciousness is awareness that all of space and time are connected and that distance isn't what we think it is, and TJI more or less states it directly. Empathy seems to be the experience of instantaneous contact with remote lives in this book, much as it was in Simmon's four Hyperion books. I'm rather happy, in the end, to have this model of FH's thought to go on in the future, as I suspect it will elucidate some of the more obscure elements in some of his books (I'm not sure all of then employ this model of physics as the Pandora and Dune series do). It certainly goes a long way towards explaining prescience in Dune, as well as perhaps the BG and Tleilaxu abilities.
    Last edited by georgiedenbro on 13 Apr 2017 13:33, edited 1 time in total.
    "um-m-m-ah-h-h-hm-m-m-m!"
    georgiedenbro
     
    Posts: 654
    Joined: 11 Jun 2014 13:56
    Location: Montreal, Canada

    PreviousNext

    Return to ˱

    Who is online

    Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest