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    Pandora Series

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      Non-Dune Frank Herbert Book Discussion

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    Postby A Thing of Eternity » 17 Sep 2008 19:02

    Hunchback Jack wrote:
    A Thing of Eternity wrote: I guess it can't be entirely ruled out, just as we can't entirely rule out that we could be living in the matrix right now, or that there could be a big sky daddy.


    Ouch. Well, that put me in my place. ;)

    But I would say no, it's not in the Dune universe. Axolotl tanks is just spill-over. There are chair/bed dogs in the ConSentiency books, and that is definitely not in the Dune universe.


    Fair enough.

    HBJ


    Hehe, I actually meant that to be the opposite of heavy handed and acknowledge the slight possibility!

    Who knows what went on in FH's head?
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    Postby martinburo » 21 Sep 2008 11:32

    Actually, I do think it can be ruled out if you include the rest of the series. D:V, TJI and TLE could only have taken place before Dune (e.g. D:V is definitely within the 100 centuries of space travel before guild). Though the people in Dune can't have been aware of Ship, or it would have been mentioned. An AI God would have been even more influential to humanity's view of itself than the BJ. But it's entirely possible that the people on the Earth of D:V were not aware that Ship had been created.
    But in TAF Ship threatened to let humanity destroy itself, and that implies that there is no other humanity than on Pandora, which is not consistent with TAF being before Dune, and Ship's threat is not consistent with the Golden Path if it is to be after the Dune series.
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    Postby DuneFishUK » 21 Sep 2008 12:12

    A Thing of Eternity wrote:
    Hunchback Jack wrote:
    A Thing of Eternity wrote: I guess it can't be entirely ruled out, just as we can't entirely rule out that we could be living in the matrix right now, or that there could be a big sky daddy.


    Ouch. Well, that put me in my place. ;)

    But I would say no, it's not in the Dune universe. Axolotl tanks is just spill-over. There are chair/bed dogs in the ConSentiency books, and that is definitely not in the Dune universe.


    Fair enough.

    HBJ


    Hehe, I actually meant that to be the opposite of heavy handed and acknowledge the slight possibility!

    Who knows what went on in FH's head?


    Isn't Godmakers supposed to be a bridge story between ConSentiency and Dune? (Although it's one of the few I haven't read yet.)
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    Postby A Thing of Eternity » 21 Sep 2008 17:51

    DuneFishUK wrote:
    A Thing of Eternity wrote:
    Hunchback Jack wrote:
    A Thing of Eternity wrote: I guess it can't be entirely ruled out, just as we can't entirely rule out that we could be living in the matrix right now, or that there could be a big sky daddy.


    Ouch. Well, that put me in my place. ;)

    But I would say no, it's not in the Dune universe. Axolotl tanks is just spill-over. There are chair/bed dogs in the ConSentiency books, and that is definitely not in the Dune universe.


    Fair enough.

    HBJ


    I haven't read it either.

    Hehe, I actually meant that to be the opposite of heavy handed and acknowledge the slight possibility!

    Who knows what went on in FH's head?


    Isn't Godmakers supposed to be a bridge story between ConSentiency and Dune? (Although it's one of the few I haven't read yet.)
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    Postby A Thing of Eternity » 21 Sep 2008 17:53

    martinburo wrote:Actually, I do think it can be ruled out if you include the rest of the series. D:V, TJI and TLE could only have taken place before Dune (e.g. D:V is definitely within the 100 centuries of space travel before guild). Though the people in Dune can't have been aware of Ship, or it would have been mentioned. An AI God would have been even more influential to humanity's view of itself than the BJ. But it's entirely possible that the people on the Earth of D:V were not aware that Ship had been created.
    But in TAF Ship threatened to let humanity destroy itself, and that implies that there is no other humanity than on Pandora, which is not consistent with TAF being before Dune, and Ship's threat is not consistent with the Golden Path if it is to be after the Dune series.


    I very much had the impression that by the time TJI starts we are millions of years in the future, if not billions. Ship has tried again and again with humanity, giving them "do-overs" and this is their last chance.

    If someone wanted to say that these are in the same universe I don't think it's totally out of the question, just very unlikely.
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    Postby SandChigger » 21 Sep 2008 19:42

    Maybe it's just me, but I find the idea that the two are the same universe rather boring, actually.

    Why do people want to join them? Why can't FH have created and written in multiple, unrelated universes?

    There's something rather pinched about the whole thing. :roll:
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    Postby A Thing of Eternity » 21 Sep 2008 21:06

    SandChigger wrote:Maybe it's just me, but I find the idea that the two are the same universe rather boring, actually.

    Why do people want to join them? Why can't FH have created and written in multiple, unrelated universes?

    There's something rather pinched about the whole thing. :roll:


    For the records I see no point in joining them either, nor do I think FH even remotely intended it. I was just playing the DA and pointing out that the idea can't really be thrown out all together.
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    Postby SwordMaster » 26 Feb 2009 20:41

    DuneFishUK wrote:
    A Thing of Eternity wrote:
    Hunchback Jack wrote:
    A Thing of Eternity wrote: I guess it can't be entirely ruled out, just as we can't entirely rule out that we could be living in the matrix right now, or that there could be a big sky daddy.


    Ouch. Well, that put me in my place. ;)

    But I would say no, it's not in the Dune universe. Axolotl tanks is just spill-over. There are chair/bed dogs in the ConSentiency books, and that is definitely not in the Dune universe.


    Fair enough.

    HBJ


    Hehe, I actually meant that to be the opposite of heavy handed and acknowledge the slight possibility!

    Who knows what went on in FH's head?


    Isn't Godmakers supposed to be a bridge story between ConSentiency and Dune? (Although it's one of the few I haven't read yet.)


    I dont think so. Can anyone post some kind of proof about this. I do not think any other books FH wrote and/or co wrote are inter related at all, and if FH lived long enough to see the sad end to Foundation he would have lost respect for the crazy old Russain for doing it with Irobot and Foundation. Ugly finish to 2 really good universe if only they had not been the same one. Kind of ruined both seires for me.

    No chance on Pandora and Dune. No chance at all. Ship could show Jesus. So the only way it would make sense if it happend at the very end of Dune, and like a few trillion years after the end of the dune empire.... the scattering was to prevent the race ever dying out... no too many contradictions
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    Postby SandChigger » 26 Feb 2009 23:39

    Thank you. Another voice of reason. :D
    I have heard of only one mistake that doesn’t have an explanation for a careful reader...with an open mind. (And, no, I’m not going to tell you what it is!) —KJA

    I don't like every writer's style; for instance, I have never been able to get through Ursula LeGuin, China Mieville, or Iain Banks, all of whom are critical darlings. —KJA

    I...had written a bunch of Star Wars and X-Files books...that proved not just that I'm a hack, but that I could write in somebody else's universe... —KJA
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    Postby DuneFishUK » 27 Feb 2009 14:13

    As I understood it - Godmakers isn't/wasn't/never was an ACTUAL bridge. But it was an independent story about how a universe not unlike the one in Whipping/Dosadi could turn into a Dune.

    Come to think of it - I should really just read it - that would sort out my unsourced statement :P
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    Postby Dune Nerd » 27 Feb 2009 15:36

    I never saw any sort of physical connection between FH's universes. Obviously, he has ideologies that are common between his novels but that is it.

    When I read these I saw no sort of physical connection at all.
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    Postby SandChigger » 27 Feb 2009 23:49

    Neither did I. (See any sort of connection.)

    Duniverse - no sentient aliens or artefacts thereof encountered in 250 centuries.

    ConSentiency - the NAME SAYS IT: a universe crawling with sentient beings, some of them from star systems well within what would be the Old Empire.

    D:V/ShipVerse - Ship arises before humanity has colonized any other star systems.

    The existence of ConSentiency aliens forever rules out any equating of that universe and the Duniverse.

    To equate the Duniverse with the ShipVerse, you'd have to assume that Ship pisses off with no trance and does not interfere in human affairs in a noticeable way during the period of Duniverse history we are familiar with.

    Really, why do they have to be the same, anyway? The whole idea strikes me as the same sort of silliness that tries to make every important character in the Duniverse a blood relative of every other important character. (Weak-headed HACK nonsense, in other words.)
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    Postby A Thing of Eternity » 28 Feb 2009 23:56

    SandChigger wrote:Neither did I. (See any sort of connection.)

    Duniverse - no sentient aliens or artefacts thereof encountered in 250 centuries.

    ConSentiency - the NAME SAYS IT: a universe crawling with sentient beings, some of them from star systems well within what would be the Old Empire.

    D:V/ShipVerse - Ship arises before humanity has colonized any other star systems.

    The existence of ConSentiency aliens forever rules out any equating of that universe and the Duniverse.

    To equate the Duniverse with the ShipVerse, you'd have to assume that Ship pisses off with no trance and does not interfere in human affairs in a noticeable way during the period of Duniverse history we are familiar with.

    Really, why do they have to be the same, anyway? The whole idea strikes me as the same sort of silliness that tries to make every important character in the Duniverse a blood relative of every other important character. (Weak-headed HACK nonsense, in other words.)


    Agree totally.
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    Postby SwordMaster » 03 Mar 2009 10:03

    SandChigger wrote:Neither did I. (See any sort of connection.)

    Duniverse - no sentient aliens or artefacts thereof encountered in 250 centuries.

    ConSentiency - the NAME SAYS IT: a universe crawling with sentient beings, some of them from star systems well within what would be the Old Empire.

    D:V/ShipVerse - Ship arises before humanity has colonized any other star systems.

    The existence of ConSentiency aliens forever rules out any equating of that universe and the Duniverse.

    To equate the Duniverse with the ShipVerse, you'd have to assume that Ship pisses off with no trance and does not interfere in human affairs in a noticeable way during the period of Duniverse history we are familiar with.

    Really, why do they have to be the same, anyway? The whole idea strikes me as the same sort of silliness that tries to make every important character in the Duniverse a blood relative of every other important character. (Weak-headed HACK nonsense, in other words.)


    Lets add time travel to Dune that will really make it more fun! :twisted:
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    Postby SandChigger » 03 Mar 2009 11:41

    More than a few of us were afraid someone was going to try just that, actually. ;) (Fortunately [so to speak], the idiot in question opted for serial dei-ex-machina instead.)
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    Postby SwordMaster » 03 Mar 2009 12:30

    Norma Cenva FTW !
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    Postby SandChigger » 03 Mar 2009 14:10

    From The Wuss?

    Do you mean Kevin or Brian? :P
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    Re: Pandora Series

    Postby SadisticCynic » 19 May 2009 17:47

    Was having a look at this and it seems there was another story as part of the Pandora series; Songs of a Sentient Flute. Anybody ever get a chance to read this? It is apparently part of an anthology.

    http://www.sfwa.org/members/ransom/ (you have to scroll a little).
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    Re: Pandora Series

    Postby A Thing of Eternity » 19 May 2009 18:39

    SadisticCynic wrote:Was having a look at this and it seems there was another story as part of the Pandora series; Songs of a Sentient Flute. Anybody ever get a chance to read this? It is apparently part of an anthology.

    http://www.sfwa.org/members/ransom/ (you have to scroll a little).


    WHHAAAAAT??? I wonder if this became part of TJI or something... interesting, worth much further looking.
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    Re: Pandora Series

    Postby Omphalos » 20 May 2009 00:17

    "Medea" refers to an anthology by Harlan Ellison called Medea: Harlan's World. I knew that it had a FH story in it that I had never read, but I did not know it was in part of Pandora. I always assumed that it was just an ego-piece by Harlan Ellison since it had his name in it.

    Medea was popular and made it into several different editions, including an SFBC from the Phantasia Press edition. I see it all the time in various used book stores. Ill snatch up a copy the next time I see it.

    Here is a link to the publishing history of this story.

    http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?49903
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    Re: Pandora Series

    Postby SadisticCynic » 21 May 2009 18:09

    Looked up that book on Wikipedia and it explains all the stories happen on the same planet... makes me wonder if it really is on Pandora. :?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medea_(planet)
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    Re: Pandora Series

    Postby Arrrmanda » 01 Oct 2009 01:37

    This is also my second favorite series of FH's. It might even rank up there with Dune equally, but I haven't decided.

    Anyone ever found any hard cover copies of these books? Or an original version of D:V from before the revised edition was released in 1978? I madly adore that book and refuse to be told by FH that I can't handle the original version dammit! :P

    I have scoured the internet and found very little of this series unfortunately, and used book stores are basically non existent where I live.
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    Re: Pandora Series

    Postby Freakzilla » 01 Oct 2009 08:00

    D:V is the journey to Pandora.
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    Re: Pandora Series

    Postby A Thing of Eternity » 01 Oct 2009 12:51

    Freakzilla wrote:D:V is the journey to Pandora.


    Huh?

    She's just looking for the old version rather than the new version, FH did a major rewrite. I don't think he simplified it or anything though, just updated most of the tech stuff that had changed over the years.

    I'm also searching for the original version of D:V, no luck yet. :(
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    Re: Pandora Series

    Postby Serkanner » 01 Oct 2009 14:51

    A Thing of Eternity wrote:
    Freakzilla wrote:D:V is the journey to Pandora.


    Huh?

    She's just looking for the old version rather than the new version, FH did a major rewrite. I don't think he simplified it or anything though, just updated most of the tech stuff that had changed over the years.

    I'm also searching for the original version of D:V, no luck yet. :(


    Do you mean the version that was published as "Do I sleep or wake", in GALAXY? That one I would like to find as well.
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