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    The Dragon In the Sea

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      Non-Dune Frank Herbert Book Discussion

    Moderators: Omphalos, Freakzilla, ᴶᵛᵀᴬ, Mr. Teg

    Re: The Dragon In the Sea

    Postby Freakzilla » 07 Feb 2012 13:32

    SandChigger wrote:Jester of Loose Change



    I like that.
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    Re: The Dragon In the Sea

    Postby D Pope » 07 Feb 2012 13:37

    Freakzilla wrote:
    D Pope wrote:I'm terribly sorry you're so afflicted. Understand that because of your syndrome, we will no longer try to correct any misconceptions you display. It was awfull and insensitive of us to have poked fun at you for not understanding what you read. Now that we know you are the victim of a cruel genetic lottory, all of your future posts can and will be interpreted in an appropriate light. Thank you so much for sharing this information about yourself.

    I formally submit this post to the Judge of the Change for approval.


    I'm pretty sure that's not going to fly. :wink:

    I understand that i've exceeded my authority when I spoke for all of us but if the JotC approves, it will be law. None of the Cast Out will tease, harass, correct, or communicate in any way that isn't complimentary, with Jodorowsky's Acolyte.
    He has invoked disabled status and should be treated accordingly.
    Only positive reinforcement allowed for this intreped soul.
    His Excelency wrote:Don't know what The Judge will say, but the Jester of Loose Change approves!

    Chigger's onboard!
    Is it so hard to only say nice things to the disabled?
    Leto II is gone for good, except for OM. The "pearl" was just that; a miniscule portion of what Leto was, and not a compressed version of the whole. The pearl that the worms have do not make them Leto, or in any way similar to him.
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    Re: The Dragon In the Sea

    Postby Serkanner » 07 Feb 2012 14:04

    D Pope wrote:Is it so hard to only say nice things to the disabled?


    Like, get well soon?
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    Re: The Dragon In the Sea

    Postby Freakzilla » 07 Feb 2012 14:11

    D Pope wrote:
    Freakzilla wrote:
    D Pope wrote:I'm terribly sorry you're so afflicted. Understand that because of your syndrome, we will no longer try to correct any misconceptions you display. It was awfull and insensitive of us to have poked fun at you for not understanding what you read. Now that we know you are the victim of a cruel genetic lottory, all of your future posts can and will be interpreted in an appropriate light. Thank you so much for sharing this information about yourself.

    I formally submit this post to the Judge of the Change for approval.


    I'm pretty sure that's not going to fly. :wink:

    I understand that i've exceeded my authority when I spoke for all of us but if the JotC approves, it will be law. None of the Cast Out will tease, harass, correct, or communicate in any way that isn't complimentary, with Jodorowsky's Acolyte.
    He has invoked disabled status and should be treated accordingly.
    Only positive reinforcement allowed for this intreped soul.


    But then we'll have to implicate some kind of signage that indicates their status as disabled, an aproval process for said sign, ramps and handrails, etc.

    There's a lot more ins, outs and whathaveyous than you may realize.
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    Re: The Dragon In the Sea

    Postby Omphalos » 07 Feb 2012 15:02

    Freakzilla wrote:
    D Pope wrote:I'm terribly sorry you're so afflicted. Understand that because of your syndrome, we will no longer try to correct any misconceptions you display. It was awfull and insensitive of us to have poked fun at you for not understanding what you read. Now that we know you are the victim of a cruel genetic lottory, all of your future posts can and will be interpreted in an appropriate light. Thank you so much for sharing this information about yourself.

    I formally submit this post to the Judge of the Change for approval.


    I'm pretty sure that's not going to fly. :wink:


    Nobody take anything personally and we'll all be fine. That was the central idea behind this board (after Dune), and as far as I'm concerned it still is.

    As for giving an Aspberger kid shit for being who he is: Grow the fuck up. :D

    JA, the fact is that members here will generally try to treat you like they do anyone else. That'll probably lead to some issues and is to be expected. But most of them will back off when they remember who you are. I hope that being treated a bit differently won't turn you off, but I personally don't know any other way to deal with stuff like this. So, let them vent, but try to remember it's only temporary.
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    Re: The Dragon In the Sea

    Postby D Pope » 07 Feb 2012 15:26

    Aww shucks.
    :text-offtopic:
    Leto II is gone for good, except for OM. The "pearl" was just that; a miniscule portion of what Leto was, and not a compressed version of the whole. The pearl that the worms have do not make them Leto, or in any way similar to him.
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    Re: The Dragon In the Sea

    Postby Nekhrun » 07 Feb 2012 17:47

    D Pope wrote:I'm terribly sorry you're so afflicted. Understand that because of your syndrome, we will no longer try to correct any misconceptions you display. It was awfull and insensitive of us to have poked fun at you for not understanding what you read. Now that we know you are the victim of a cruel genetic lottory, all of your future posts can and will be interpreted in an appropriate light. Thank you so much for sharing this information about yourself.

    I formally submit this post to the Judge of the Change for approval.

    I like the initiative and think that this should be the post that gets linked to every time this comes up. What is this, 3 times in the last 6 months?
    "If he was here to discuss Dune, he sure as hell picked a dumb way to do it." -Omphalos :character-cookiemonster:

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    Re: The Dragon In the Sea

    Postby Omphalos » 07 Feb 2012 19:37

    Nekhrun wrote:
    D Pope wrote:I'm terribly sorry you're so afflicted. Understand that because of your syndrome, we will no longer try to correct any misconceptions you display. It was awfull and insensitive of us to have poked fun at you for not understanding what you read. Now that we know you are the victim of a cruel genetic lottory, all of your future posts can and will be interpreted in an appropriate light. Thank you so much for sharing this information about yourself.

    I formally submit this post to the Judge of the Change for approval.

    I like the initiative and think that this should be the post that gets linked to every time this comes up. What is this, 3 times in the last 6 months?


    I can remember only 1 other time.
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    Re: The Dragon In the Sea

    Postby Nekhrun » 07 Feb 2012 19:49

    Omphalos wrote:
    Nekhrun wrote:
    D Pope wrote:I'm terribly sorry you're so afflicted. Understand that because of your syndrome, we will no longer try to correct any misconceptions you display. It was awfull and insensitive of us to have poked fun at you for not understanding what you read. Now that we know you are the victim of a cruel genetic lottory, all of your future posts can and will be interpreted in an appropriate light. Thank you so much for sharing this information about yourself.

    I formally submit this post to the Judge of the Change for approval.

    I like the initiative and think that this should be the post that gets linked to every time this comes up. What is this, 3 times in the last 6 months?


    I can remember only 1 other time.

    I wonder if something is wrong with one of us then.
    "If he was here to discuss Dune, he sure as hell picked a dumb way to do it." -Omphalos :character-cookiemonster:

    Happy Memorial Day everyone! -James C. Harwood

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    "Over 500 views for my 'Open Question' video." -Nebiros
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    Re: The Dragon In the Sea

    Postby SandRider » 07 Feb 2012 21:29

    I gotta fucked-up back & drink too much ...
    ................ I exist only to amuse myself ................
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    I personally feel that this message board, Jacurutu, is full of hateful folks who don't know
    how to fully interact with people.
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    Re: The Dragon In the Sea

    Postby Nekhrun » 07 Feb 2012 21:44

    SandRider wrote:I gotta fucked-up back & drink too much ...


    I'm terribly sorry you're so afflicted. Understand that because of your syndrome, we will no longer try to correct any misconceptions you display. It was awful and insensitive of us to have poked fun at you for not understanding what you read. Now that we know you are the victim of a cruel genetic lottery, all of your future posts can and will be interpreted in an appropriate light. Thank you so much for sharing this information about yourself.
    "If he was here to discuss Dune, he sure as hell picked a dumb way to do it." -Omphalos :character-cookiemonster:

    Happy Memorial Day everyone! -James C. Harwood

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    "Over 500 views for my 'Open Question' video." -Nebiros
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    Re: The Dragon In the Sea

    Postby Freakzilla » 07 Feb 2012 21:51

    I'm still trying to figure out what my excuse is...

    Oh yeah, nevermind.

    SHOT TIME!
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    Re: The Dragon In the Sea

    Postby Jodorowsky's Acolyte » 08 Feb 2012 00:05

    I feel like I caused a cataclysmic event in a thread that didn't need it. As a note to others: I don't want to be treated differently from what many a tough Cast-out has gone through before, and I don't want special privileges as a member. I'm willing to earn the respect of the other Fremen warriors, dealing with random bursts of steam, or summoning and riding a sandworm by myself (even though worms and Arrakis don't exist). Let's just go on as before. I feel like an idiot being tempted to explain why I am what I am, but it had to be said at some point, even though I prefer keeping myself mostly anonymous for the purpose of the forum. I guess didn't want people to think that I was some sort of trolling idiot, but I should have kept in mind the advice from KUNG FU: "Is it not better to see yourself truly than care about others see you?" I should have known better than to be melodramtic and reactionary. I hope I didn't screw things up in the delicate balance of Jacurutu just to respond over a year old petty riff.

    Thanks Omphalos, for being the wise sage.

    Freakzilla wrote:I'm still trying to figure out what my excuse is...

    Oh yeah, nevermind.

    SHOT TIME!


    You're excuse is that you're the Super Kwisatz Haderach, who is on a hardcore-sci fi journey in the vein of EL TOPO to find the Teguila Sandworm in the South Polar regions of Arrakis. I hope this destiny suits you, Mega-Lisan-al-gaib. It'll take more than five bottles of Water of Life to survive that ordeal.
    '...all those who took part in the rise and fall of the Dune project learned how to fall one and one thousand times with savage obstinacy until learning how to stand. I remember my old father who, while dying happy, said to me: "My son, in my life, I triumphed because I learned how to fail."' -Alejandro Jodorowsky
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    Re: The Dragon In the Sea

    Postby SandChigger » 08 Feb 2012 02:58

    SandRider wrote:I gotta fucked-up back & drink too much ...

    :character-oldtimer:
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    Re: The Dragon In the Sea

    Postby inhuien » 08 Feb 2012 05:35

    Jodorowsky's Acolyte wrote: I hope I didn't screw things up in the delicate balance of Jacurutu just to respond over a year old petty riff.
    You did mean that I jest I trust.

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    Re: The Dragon In the Sea

    Postby Sardaukar Capt » 06 Apr 2015 10:45

    Finished The Dragon In The Sea last night and for a first published novel, it was decent. Not great, but decently good for a near-future setting novel written in the 1950s. The themes were universal enough that some of the conclusions about the near-future that of course aren't true today don't pull you out of the story. One criticism, I think he could have fleshed out the world a little more. He used a bit of subtext and hints about the world in the book but not to the expert degree that he would later use in Dune that allowed the reader to flesh out that universe so well in their minds as they read. He didn't do enough or to the expert degree in The Dragon In The Sea and it left me wondering more about the world of this book more than sparking my imagination to build the world in my mind. All that said, the story kept me hooked until the end. You can also see the budding influence of psychology and the human mind that will go on to greatly influence Dune.
    The name Atreides was also consciously chosen. It is the family name of Agamemnon. Says Herbert, "I wanted a sense of monumental aristocracy, but with tragedy hanging over them--and in our culture, Agamemnon personifies that."
    Frank Herbert by Tim O'Reilly
    http://tim.oreilly.com/herbert/

    Ghanima said. "We Atreides go back to Agamemnon..."
    Distracted, Irulan asked: "Who's Agamemnon?"

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    Re: The Dragon In the Sea

    Postby Omphalos » 07 Apr 2015 10:04

    Sardaukar Capt wrote:Finished The Dragon In The Sea last night and for a first published novel, it was decent. Not great, but decently good for a near-future setting novel written in the 1950s. The themes were universal enough that some of the conclusions about the near-future that of course aren't true today don't pull you out of the story. One criticism, I think he could have fleshed out the world a little more. He used a bit of subtext and hints about the world in the book but not to the expert degree that he would later use in Dune that allowed the reader to flesh out that universe so well in their minds as they read. He didn't do enough or to the expert degree in The Dragon In The Sea and it left me wondering more about the world of this book more than sparking my imagination to build the world in my mind. All that said, the story kept me hooked until the end. You can also see the budding influence of psychology and the human mind that will go on to greatly influence Dune.


    I think he did that on purpose. He wanted the reader to wonder about the world outside of the sub, but he purposefully kept silent (or mostly silent) so that the reader would experience a little bit of the sense of confinement and being shut off that the submarieners were feeling. That, I think, is actually one of the greatest accomplishemnts of that book; that he did that successfully.
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    Re: The Dragon In the Sea

    Postby Sardaukar Capt » 07 Apr 2015 16:03

    That's a fair point although I don't think a few more nuggets of subtext would have hurt that feeling of isolation the reader experiences in the characters and setting. For a first novel it was actually a lot better than I expected.
    The name Atreides was also consciously chosen. It is the family name of Agamemnon. Says Herbert, "I wanted a sense of monumental aristocracy, but with tragedy hanging over them--and in our culture, Agamemnon personifies that."
    Frank Herbert by Tim O'Reilly
    http://tim.oreilly.com/herbert/

    Ghanima said. "We Atreides go back to Agamemnon..."
    Distracted, Irulan asked: "Who's Agamemnon?"

    Children of Dune by Frank Herbert

    WTF? A BG forgets the Titans?! :)
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    Re: The Dragon In the Sea

    Postby AnEhforanEh » 28 Sep 2016 01:45

    I picked up a softback copy of this book at a library book sale about 9 years ago. I think i paid a dollar for it. Its been a long time since I read it, but i remember the sense of tension portrayed as the sub crept through enemy waters, desperately trying to avoid notice. I thought it was pretty darn good. Gotta give it another go sometime soon.

    I let my dad borrow it once. He served in the Navy during Vietnam and I thought he'd appreciate it. He did, but his only comments were, "There's no chapters," (i think the lack of numbered headers confused him, sad old fuck) and "Gee, he sure likes to make up words, huh?" :lol: if the techno babble in this book confused him i wondered how he'd handle Dune or D:V :D (He chickened out. Tom Clancy is more his vein.)

    Anyway, yeah... DitS isnt as deep as some of Frank's other work, but it is definately worth the read.
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