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    The Dragon In the Sea

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      Non-Dune Frank Herbert Book Discussion

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    Postby Mandy » 24 Feb 2009 18:41

    I bought it today.. the crappy little used bookstore in town doesn't have much science fiction, only three FH novels in the whole store.
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    Re: The Dragon In the Sea

    Postby Nekhrun » 08 Aug 2010 21:24

    Just bought it today at a used book store. Looking forward to reading it this week.
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    Re: The Dragon In the Sea

    Postby Omphalos » 09 Aug 2010 00:59

    Nekhrun wrote:Just bought it today at a used book store. Looking forward to reading it this week.


    It's a good'un
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    Re: The Dragon In the Sea

    Postby Nekhrun » 09 Aug 2010 08:28

    Omphalos wrote:
    Nekhrun wrote:Just bought it today at a used book store. Looking forward to reading it this week.


    It's a good'un

    I found it for 3 bucks and wasn't sure if I'd read it because it didn't really suit my interests, but I checked out your review and thought I'd give it a shot, so thanks for that.
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    Re: The Dragon In the Sea

    Postby Omphalos » 09 Aug 2010 14:13

    de nada, amigo! Add a comment when you're done on the blog. Id love to talk about that book with someone else who has read it.
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    Re: The Dragon In the Sea

    Postby Freakzilla » 09 Aug 2010 14:19

    One of these days I'm going to add FH's "Other Books" to the reading group... anyone got PDFs? :wink:
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    Re: The Dragon In the Sea

    Postby Omphalos » 09 Aug 2010 15:34

    Freakzilla wrote:One of these days I'm going to add FH's "Other Books" to the reading group... anyone got PDFs? :wink:


    Which reminds me, my good man. I went back to start proofing your stuff at T(A)U, and i realized that they are not complete. There are chapters that are at Jacurutu that are not at T(A)U. As I do this I want to sticky the topics so that when you open those directories the chapters are in order, instead of jumbled around each time someone adds a comment. To do that properly I have to review and sticy in reverse order, so that Chapter One is the last one I do, and thus the last one stickied (at the top of the list). Could you maybe add all the missing chapter summaries at T(A)U so I can get started on that?
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    Re: The Dragon In the Sea

    Postby Freakzilla » 09 Aug 2010 16:46

    Omphalos wrote:
    Freakzilla wrote:One of these days I'm going to add FH's "Other Books" to the reading group... anyone got PDFs? :wink:


    Which reminds me, my good man. I went back to start proofing your stuff at T(A)U, and i realized that they are not complete. There are chapters that are at Jacurutu that are not at T(A)U. As I do this I want to sticky the topics so that when you open those directories the chapters are in order, instead of jumbled around each time someone adds a comment. To do that properly I have to review and sticy in reverse order, so that Chapter One is the last one I do, and thus the last one stickied (at the top of the list). Could you maybe add all the missing chapter summaries at T(A)U so I can get started on that?


    I won't be able to until this weekend. But that would be great! So, to do that here I just make them stickies in order?
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    Re: The Dragon In the Sea

    Postby Omphalos » 09 Aug 2010 16:50

    Freakzilla wrote:
    Omphalos wrote:
    Freakzilla wrote:One of these days I'm going to add FH's "Other Books" to the reading group... anyone got PDFs? :wink:


    Which reminds me, my good man. I went back to start proofing your stuff at T(A)U, and i realized that they are not complete. There are chapters that are at Jacurutu that are not at T(A)U. As I do this I want to sticky the topics so that when you open those directories the chapters are in order, instead of jumbled around each time someone adds a comment. To do that properly I have to review and sticy in reverse order, so that Chapter One is the last one I do, and thus the last one stickied (at the top of the list). Could you maybe add all the missing chapter summaries at T(A)U so I can get started on that?


    I won't be able to until this weekend. But that would be great! So, to do that here I just make them stickies in order?


    Yes. Start with the last chapter and go backwards, because as you sticky a topic, it becomes the first one at the top. That way when you end with Chapter One of each book, it'll be the first one in order, at the top.

    Be sure to fix that one chapter you messed up with first. I never got to fix that one myself. Nor did I ever figure out which one it was.

    EDIT: Oops. Strike that. Better make them "Announcements." I just looked at T(A)U and stickied topics do float.
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    Re: The Dragon In the Sea

    Postby Freakzilla » 10 Aug 2010 10:15

    Omphalos wrote:
    Freakzilla wrote:
    Omphalos wrote:
    Freakzilla wrote:One of these days I'm going to add FH's "Other Books" to the reading group... anyone got PDFs? :wink:


    Which reminds me, my good man. I went back to start proofing your stuff at T(A)U, and i realized that they are not complete. There are chapters that are at Jacurutu that are not at T(A)U. As I do this I want to sticky the topics so that when you open those directories the chapters are in order, instead of jumbled around each time someone adds a comment. To do that properly I have to review and sticy in reverse order, so that Chapter One is the last one I do, and thus the last one stickied (at the top of the list). Could you maybe add all the missing chapter summaries at T(A)U so I can get started on that?


    I won't be able to until this weekend. But that would be great! So, to do that here I just make them stickies in order?


    Yes. Start with the last chapter and go backwards, because as you sticky a topic, it becomes the first one at the top. That way when you end with Chapter One of each book, it'll be the first one in order, at the top.

    Be sure to fix that one chapter you messed up with first. I never got to fix that one myself. Nor did I ever figure out which one it was.

    EDIT: Oops. Strike that. Better make them "Announcements." I just looked at T(A)U and stickied topics do float.


    Maybe this year I'll read all six books at the same time... BACKWARDS!

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    Re: The Dragon In the Sea

    Postby inhuien » 10 Aug 2010 15:51

    ^^^Standing on your head, with your head in a bucket shouting Big Mommas . :lol: :D
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    Re: The Dragon In the Sea

    Postby Jodorowsky's Acolyte » 01 Mar 2011 13:56

    This may be an out-of-the-ordinary expectation from Frank Herbert's first book, but I wish that Dragon of the Sea, or Under Pressure as it's sometimes called, had encounters with giant squid and other sea life, that way Frank Herbert would have done sort of a pre-Dune 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea. Instead of walk-without rhythm, it would be "keep your lights off at all times" because squid are attracted to glowing (in reality, they would be frightened off by the light and the loud machine noises of the sub, but writers didn't know that back in the 50s). Acknowledging the sea life outside of the subtug would have made the mission less restricted or crammed, and it could have explored the ecological dangers of the international naval oil craze, and Frank would have made an impressive jab at aquatic ecology before venturing off to desert ecology.

    Back onto giant squid: what Frank had them attacking the sub because of their awareness of underwater war and resource exploitation is affecting their environment, and so protect their territory the same way the worms protect theirs? There could have been comments about how little was known about squid until then, and how little is still understood about them because of the demands of oil mining. Comments would also have range about how they were considered monsters, and whether various fictional or historical characters were attacked by these things because they had pissed them off in a similar way the crew is doing that moment: invasion of space.

    I am impressed enough that Frank Herbert managed to comment upon international dependence upon oil long before the oil crisises of our own era, and that he was able to realistically render submarine technology and pressures in a science fiction settting. Still, I would've liked to see more involved in the novel.
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    Re: The Dragon In the Sea

    Postby Omphalos » 01 Mar 2011 14:15

    That book was tense and a pretty deep psychological examination of the pressures of war. The fact that it was in a sub was just a literary way of mirroring the "pressures" of combat and trying to get the economic advantage, not an attempt at a real sub novel, or to throw a pulp monster or two at the reader. Adding giant squids or whale-sharks would have made the thing laughable, and would have given release to the pressure he was otherwise building. Had he done that Herbert would have failed at writing the book he was trying to write. Thank GOD there were no monsters in that one.

    The reasons the worms worked in Dune were to symbolize man's taming of the environment which ultimately led to its destruction. Dragon in the Sea was certainly not an evnironmental novel, even though it was set in a different enviornment. It was about the pressure inside the sub, and would have lost that character and been a different book with any more external focus.
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    Re: The Dragon In the Sea

    Postby Robspierre » 02 Mar 2011 23:47

    The only other book that goes into the psychological examination of pressure during war under extreme conditions is Glen Cook's "Passage at Arms," the Das Boot of science fiction novels. It's an excellent read and a nice companion to Frank's Dragon In the Sea.

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    Re: The Dragon In the Sea

    Postby Omphalos » 03 Mar 2011 01:52

    Robspierre wrote:The only other book that goes into the psychological examination of pressure during war under extreme conditions is Glen Cook's "Passage at Arms," the Das Boot of science fiction novels. It's an excellent read and a nice companion to Frank's Dragon In the Sea.

    Rob


    Is that book really good? I got turned off by the homogenity of the covers, which usually signifies repetitiveness and laziness, or at east I think it does. (yes, I often judge books by their covers).
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    Re: The Dragon In the Sea

    Postby Robspierre » 03 Mar 2011 22:06

    Omphalos wrote:
    Robspierre wrote:The only other book that goes into the psychological examination of pressure during war under extreme conditions is Glen Cook's "Passage at Arms," the Das Boot of science fiction novels. It's an excellent read and a nice companion to Frank's Dragon In the Sea.

    Rob


    Is that book really good? I got turned off by the homogenity of the covers, which usually signifies repetitiveness and laziness, or at east I think it does. (yes, I often judge books by their covers).



    Yes it is. Cook is known as a fantasy writer but Passage At Arms and The Dragon Never Sleeps are actually solid science fiction. The covers are kind of meh, even the re-releases from Night Shade Books, but ignore them, get Passage at Arms.

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    Re: The Dragon In the Sea

    Postby Serkanner » 04 Mar 2011 06:51

    Jodorowsky's Acolyte wrote:Back onto giant squid


    You want this book to turn into a KJA atrocity ... why?
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    Re: The Dragon In the Sea

    Postby Robspierre » 04 Mar 2011 22:48

    Jodorowsky's Acolyte wrote:
    Back onto giant squid


    Dude, put down the fraking crack pipe.

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    Re: The Dragon In the Sea

    Postby merkin muffley » 05 Mar 2011 00:24

    Crack is wack.
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    Re: The Dragon In the Sea

    Postby Freakzilla » 08 Mar 2011 15:10

    :teasing-smokingcrack:
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    Re: The Dragon In the Sea

    Postby JustSomeGuy » 08 Mar 2011 18:43

    Maybe they'll go back and rework some of Frank Herbert's other books. ¿Why not? Although well written, some of them are a little dated. Just a thought. :)
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    Re: The Dragon In the Sea

    Postby Jodorowsky's Acolyte » 07 Feb 2012 00:44

    Robspierre wrote:
    Jodorowsky's Acolyte wrote:
    Back onto giant squid


    Dude, put down the fraking crack pipe.

    Rob


    I know that this response is really late, but I feel this is in need of a response: I am not on crack. I have Asperger's Syndrome. I can come up with PLENTY of things without drugs, and I don't even want to smoke crack. I didn't mean to come up with an idiotic revisionistic attitude toward Frank Herbert's first work. I know that you're just joking, but I just thought I'd let you know.
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    Re: The Dragon In the Sea

    Postby D Pope » 07 Feb 2012 12:56

    I'm terribly sorry you're so afflicted. Understand that because of your syndrome, we will no longer try to correct any misconceptions you display. It was awfull and insensitive of us to have poked fun at you for not understanding what you read. Now that we know you are the victim of a cruel genetic lottory, all of your future posts can and will be interpreted in an appropriate light. Thank you so much for sharing this information about yourself.

    I formally submit this post to the Judge of the Change for approval.
    Leto II is gone for good, except for OM. The "pearl" was just that; a miniscule portion of what Leto was, and not a compressed version of the whole. The pearl that the worms have do not make them Leto, or in any way similar to him.
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    Re: The Dragon In the Sea

    Postby Freakzilla » 07 Feb 2012 13:10

    D Pope wrote:I'm terribly sorry you're so afflicted. Understand that because of your syndrome, we will no longer try to correct any misconceptions you display. It was awfull and insensitive of us to have poked fun at you for not understanding what you read. Now that we know you are the victim of a cruel genetic lottory, all of your future posts can and will be interpreted in an appropriate light. Thank you so much for sharing this information about yourself.

    I formally submit this post to the Judge of the Change for approval.


    I'm pretty sure that's not going to fly. :wink:
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    Re: The Dragon In the Sea

    Postby SandChigger » 07 Feb 2012 13:20

    Don't know what The Judge will say, but the Jester of Loose Change approves! :text-+1:
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