Health Care

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A Thing of Eternity
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Re: Health Care

Postby A Thing of Eternity » 04 Aug 2009 13:26

I also don't like demonizing the rich. My dad built a large music retail company from the ground up, and it has helped a lot more people than it's hurt. He makes a lot of cash, but he pays HALF his wages to taxes, so he's done more paying for social services than most people, and he has organized many charities and does his best to improve the world. There are a lot of sackofshit companies and CEOs out there, but it is as wrong to judge them all by that stereotype as it is to judge all the members of any race based on the actions of it's members.

That said, I'm not against taxing the heck out of them, but respect should be given to them in return.
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Crysknife
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Re: Health Care

Postby Crysknife » 04 Aug 2009 14:45

For the record, I never said anything about demonizing anyone. I hope to be among their ranks one day.
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A Thing of Eternity
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Re: Health Care

Postby A Thing of Eternity » 04 Aug 2009 15:18

Crysknife wrote:For the record, I never said anything about demonizing anyone. I hope to be among their ranks one day.


I know, and I get where you're coming from. I think you and I have pretty similar worldviews, and that's got to be very difficult for you, living where you do.

We always need more good people up here, you'd be more than welcome. :wink: :wink: :wink:
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Freakzilla
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Re: Health Care

Postby Freakzilla » 04 Aug 2009 17:24

I've never been to the VA for medical care but, since I'm a veteran, I was thinking about going, just to see how long it takes to get an appointment and what the future holds for our healthcare in the US.
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A Thing of Eternity
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Re: Health Care

Postby A Thing of Eternity » 04 Aug 2009 18:20

Freakzilla wrote:I've never been to the VA for medical care but, since I'm a veteran, I was thinking about going, just to see how long it takes to get an appointment and what the future holds for our healthcare in the US.


If you're thinking about an appointment for a checkup or other routine stuff, it's really fast up here and we have the dreaded social healthcare. You can phone ahead for an appointment later that day or week, or you can just show up at the doctor’s office and risk maybe having to wait 1/2 to 1.5 hours to see a doctor, if it happens to be busy.
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Eyes High
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Re: Health Care

Postby Eyes High » 04 Aug 2009 22:30

A Thing of Eternity wrote:
Freakzilla wrote:I've never been to the VA for medical care but, since I'm a veteran, I was thinking about going, just to see how long it takes to get an appointment and what the future holds for our healthcare in the US.


If you're thinking about an appointment for a checkup or other routine stuff, it's really fast up here and we have the dreaded social healthcare. You can phone ahead for an appointment later that day or week, or you can just show up at the doctor’s office and risk maybe having to wait 1/2 to 1.5 hours to see a doctor, if it happens to be busy.


That's great news about the routine stuff but what about the specialties. My husband just had a biopsy done last week. It took us about 2 to 3 weeks to schedule it beginning from the time the doctor ordered it. (most of that time was playing phone tag with the lady at the hospital and getting the copy of his scans to her) How long does that normally take with a government run system? I guess my main questions are what do they cover and how long is the wait for specialized services?

And oh, just in case any of you are wondering...we got the results back today. No sign of cancer and she wants to see him again in October. :dance:
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A Thing of Eternity
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Re: Health Care

Postby A Thing of Eternity » 05 Aug 2009 11:50

Eyes High wrote:
A Thing of Eternity wrote:
Freakzilla wrote:I've never been to the VA for medical care but, since I'm a veteran, I was thinking about going, just to see how long it takes to get an appointment and what the future holds for our healthcare in the US.


If you're thinking about an appointment for a checkup or other routine stuff, it's really fast up here and we have the dreaded social healthcare. You can phone ahead for an appointment later that day or week, or you can just show up at the doctor’s office and risk maybe having to wait 1/2 to 1.5 hours to see a doctor, if it happens to be busy.


That's great news about the routine stuff but what about the specialties. My husband just had a biopsy done last week. It took us about 2 to 3 weeks to schedule it beginning from the time the doctor ordered it. (most of that time was playing phone tag with the lady at the hospital and getting the copy of his scans to her) How long does that normally take with a government run system? I guess my main questions are what do they cover and how long is the wait for specialized services?

And oh, just in case any of you are wondering...we got the results back today. No sign of cancer and she wants to see him again in October. :dance:


Congrats, good news is good to get.

This varies wildly depending on what the doctor assesses your risk level to be. If you are at more serious risk then it will be fast, could be much longer if not (and yes, they doctor could be totally wrong). They cover pretty much everything, and most employers offer extra insurance to cover the rest (I pay for nothing).

Some things can take a long time. My dad tore two ligaments in his knee, and had to wait a couple months for surgery. I have no idea how long a biopsy would take to schedule, someone else here might though.

The waiting list for "medium" importance prodecures like my dad's knee is one of the problems with our system right now, many people have proposed many solutions, I haven't seen any viable/safe ones yet. I'll be the first to admit there are some major issues with our healthcare, but I honestly do think that it is a far better system than what is in place in the US right now. (Though, as several people have pointed out, the US is likely in no position to pay for proper healthcare right now).

I guess the question is, what is more important, the ability to get certain procedures (but not all, remember we are fast for high risk stuff) faster, or the knowledge that no person, especially children or the elderly, will ever be denied service because they are poor? I don't mean that to sound insulting either, it is not an easy question to answer and the real question is much more complicated than that breif little generalization.

For me it's both a matter of principal AND logic. It is better both morally and better for the "health" of a society to have everyone provided for.
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Eyes High
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Re: Health Care

Postby Eyes High » 05 Aug 2009 12:28

I was just wondering. We have the luck (for the lack of a better word) to experience both sides of the coins. We are lucky enough that Spiff's work does offer good health insurance for him and our children (who are under the age of 19.) However, our oldest son does not have any insurance.

His work place did have coverage up to a little over a year ago. But the rates went up and the employer said he couldn't afford the increase without deductin more from their paychecks to help cover the cost. The employer put it to a vote and most of the employees at the time voted against the increase. (My son voted for it) Most of the employees at that time were married and I think most of them had coverage thru their spouses. My son is single. The others, I'm not sure why they voted against it, either way...the majority ruled and my son is w/o health insurance. We have a problem in this country that needs to be addressed. I don't know the answer and I'm sure, like many of you have said, there is no easy solution or a one size fits all cure for this situation.

My main problem is that I think our president is moving too fast w/his proposal and that BOTH sides are 'fudging' the facts.

Why not go to the people and ask them what they would like to see. Stop wasting time w/these so called experts. Go to the people then build up from there.

I've heard good things and bad things about a socialize healthcare system. Now I would like to hear the TRUE things about it. That is another reason I like our group here. Diverse people with a wide range of knowledge and experiences. So all my fellow Dune people let's hear the opinions and experiences.
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Freakzilla
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Re: Health Care

Postby Freakzilla » 05 Aug 2009 12:31

A solution exists. He can use Medicare/Medicaid if he makes up the difference that he may be above the minimum salary.

My wife researched this last time I was between jobs.

Make the government learn to run a business before they start new ones.
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A Thing of Eternity
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Re: Health Care

Postby A Thing of Eternity » 05 Aug 2009 12:37

Eyes High wrote:I was just wondering. We have the luck (for the lack of a better word) to experience both sides of the coins. We are lucky enough that Spiff's work does offer good health insurance for him and our children (who are under the age of 19.) However, our oldest son does not have any insurance.
His work place did have coverage up to a little over a year ago. But the rates went up and the employer said he couldn't afford the increase without deductin more from their paychecks to help cover the cost. The employer put it to a vote and most of the employees at the time voted against the increase. (My son voted for it) Most of the employees at that time were married and I think most of them had coverage thru their spouses. My son is single. The others, I'm not sure why they voted against it, either way...the majority ruled and my son is w/o health insurance. We have a problem in this country that needs to be addressed. I don't know the answer and I'm sure, like many of you have said, there is no easy solution or a one size fits all cure for this situation.
My main problem is that I think our president is moving too fast w/his proposal and that BOTH sides are 'fudging' the facts.
Why not go to the people and ask them what they would like to see. Stop wasting time w/these so called experts. Go to the people then build up from there.
I've heard good things and bad things about a socialize healthcare system. Now I would like to hear the TRUE things about it. That is another reason I like our group here. Diverse people with a wide range of knowledge and experiences. So all my fellow Dune people let's hear the opinions and experiences.



Good post, that about sums it up. I agree that the Obama camp seems to be saying a lot that doesn't seem to have real numbers backing it (it's all fine to say you can find the money within what the government already wastes, but a published list of fat-trimming plans would go a long way to convincing people the money exists), and the republicans... to be honest they kinda make me sad for humanity in general. They have a legitimate position in this debate, with legitimate evidence and arguments and they don't use them. Instead they use fear-mongering lies? I don't understand why they think the american people are dumb enough to fall for their propagandha. All an american has to do is a few minutes of research on the web to discover that everything the republicans are saying about canadian healthcare is fabricated lies.

I would really like to see the republicans focus on reality - because the truth is that they might have a point (about the timing, not the concept, I'm firm that social healthcare is better), but they are throwing away their credibility by acting like children and fascists.
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Re: Health Care

Postby Nekhrun » 05 Aug 2009 14:31

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A Thing of Eternity
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Re: Health Care

Postby A Thing of Eternity » 05 Aug 2009 14:37

I think the name of the website that published that pretty much says it all! :lol:
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Re: Health Care

Postby Freakzilla » 05 Aug 2009 14:50

A Thing of Eternity wrote:I think the name of the website that published that pretty much says it all! :lol:



True...

Where is the leverage when there are no options? :wink:
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Re: Health Care

Postby A Thing of Eternity » 05 Aug 2009 14:54

Freakzilla wrote:
A Thing of Eternity wrote:I think the name of the website that published that pretty much says it all! :lol:



True...

Where is the leverage when there are no options? :wink:


Oh, I forgot to mention, we do actually have the option to opt out of healthcare up here too. Don't know what goof would do that, maybe someone who wants to save the 150$ every three months or whatever it is in that province (zero in AB as of the last year or so) and prefers to fly to the US for service.

Not a great option, but an option none the less.
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Re: Health Care

Postby Drunken Idaho » 14 Aug 2009 10:11

Wooo! Hatefest '09 is in full swing! :character-koolaid:

I'm referring to these town hall meetings about health care, of course. It's vexing just to watch not only the immature behaviour of the right-wing protesters/obstructionsists, but also the weak defense of the bill by the US democrats. And of course, the right bitches about freedom of speech and Nazi Germany as soon as anyone tells them to sit down. Well, in truth, by instigating these misinformation-shoutmatch-rallies, they are denying the freedom of speech of those who have valid points and concerns regarding healthcare reform.

Then there's all the myths, which have been propagated almost brilliantly by those deeply opposed to the healthcare bill. So much nonsense and misinformation and hate-speech all wrapped together and shoved down the throats of the American people, who then regurgitate it to everyone around them.

These claims about euthanasia and "bureaucrats standing between you and your doctor" and "long waiting lines" are absurd for a number of reasons. Mind you that I'm speaking from experience of a Canadian universal healthcare system. Euthanasia is still pretty controversial up here, and the government would probably be the last to advocate it. And I would much rather have a government worker making sure that I get care, rather than a profit-minded corporate entity who would be much happier to screw me over.

And waiting lines? There are some. But if you need emergency treatment, you will get it promptly. If it's a less urgent issue, you may be expected to wait. Why the wait? Because everybody gets their turn. It's just fairness. Lots of American politicians (and citizens) claim that these lines will leave people dying while they wait. None of them seem to realize that the system they currently have eliminates that line completely. Why not have a system where millions are not completely screwed out of health care? Canada looks out for all of its citizens, while the US considers it acceptable to deny it to those who simply can't afford it (or bankrupt them if they pay for it themselves). Try putting aside the notion that "socialized" is a swear word, and instead consider the quality of life for your citizens?

What I see right now, down there in the US, is a brilliant campaign by private-interest to confuse and aggravate the public into opposing healthcare. Why? Because there is too much money to be made by continuing to rip people off. Insurance companies are making record profits, and they won't go down without a bitter fight. They're planting seeds of misinformation and right-wing puppet whores like Palin are sowing these seeds, to the point where you can't even have a proper debate. I just hope some democrats step up and properly represent this bill, setting the record straight. I'd recommend to those democrats to start drawing comparisons to other countries with successful universal healthcare. France, Canada, Sweden, UK, all great examples. But what happens when you try to say this to right-wingers? They scoff at the notion of becoming anything like those countries. Too much pride. Too much baseless, irrelevant, and prickish pride. "Daddy hated the French, and so do I."

And on top of that, guess what? You can still own health insurance under a universal system! By all means, you can continue to rip yourself off. In fact, the health insurance industry is doing just fine up here. I know because I used to sell the garbage to idiots over the phone. Lame job, but I guess I learned a lot. I learned, being on the behind-the-scenes end of that system (and from attending seminars with corporate guys), that insurance in general is more interested in profit and the best way to screw people, rather than your well-being.

I just wish those on the right would drop the notion that "Obama is ruining the America we love" and realize that the America they love probably doesn't involve insurance companies screwing over millions of both the uninsured and the insured. The America you love will still be around (hot dogs and everything), except that more people will be healthier. Who knows, maybe you'll love America even more after the bill is passed.
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Freakzilla
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Re: Health Care

Postby Freakzilla » 14 Aug 2009 11:55

The "end of life" portions of the bill have been removed, from what I here.

I'm not worried about this anymore. There's no way in hell that it's going to pass.

80% of us are happy with out HC anddon't want it ruined to treat illigal immigrants and welfare cases.
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Re: Health Care

Postby Crysknife » 14 Aug 2009 13:51

I'm thinking about dropping my company's insurance that we offer. Just can't afford it. Hearing that the insurance company’s profits have risen 480% in the last 8 years isn't helping. And 80% of the people are NOT happy about what they have. There is still a majority of people who would like some kind of health care reform.
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Re: Health Care

Postby Freakzilla » 14 Aug 2009 13:53

Crysknife wrote:I'm thinking about dropping my company's insurance that we offer. Just can't afford it. Hearing that the insurance company’s profits have risen 480% in the last 8 years isn't helping. And 80% of the people are NOT happy about what they have. There is still a majority of people who would like some kind of health care reform.


Don't get me wrong, I think the system needs reform. That doesn't mean I want government healthcare.
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A Thing of Eternity
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Re: Health Care

Postby A Thing of Eternity » 14 Aug 2009 13:59

I wonder how many people are actually happy with their healthcare, and how many just say/think they are because they've been conditioned to fear social healthcare as some kind of doombringing thing that will destroy America. I have a hunch that the majority of "rightwing" Americans have no idea whatsoever what socialized healthcare is actually like, all they know is the republican propagandha, which I admit is scary as hell, you'd think they were talking about revoking democracy or something!

There are probably a lot of people who are just scared, and figure better the devil they know than the one they don't.

And of course, this is all academic right now because the chance of this happening in the US is pretty much nil from what I understand. The empire has to crumble a lot further before everyone will admit they can see the cracks that need filling.
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Re: Health Care

Postby Freakzilla » 14 Aug 2009 14:07

Legalize medical marijuana on a national level and I'll support gov. HC.

:banana-stoner:
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Re: Health Care

Postby Drunken Idaho » 14 Aug 2009 14:51

Hey Freak! What wouldn't you do for weed?

And as for all those aliens and welfare-cases, well I don't know about my fellow Canadians, but I'm glad for the immigrants who are taken care of here. I mean, they clearly know that Canada is the place to be, and I imagine many of them are working hard at becoming a citizen. Charging them up the ass simply is neither logical, nor is it good PR. Why not love your fellow man?

:romance-grouphug:
Come on people now,
Smile on your brother...

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Freakzilla
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Re: Health Care

Postby Freakzilla » 14 Aug 2009 15:01

You mean, illegal immigrants in Canada PAY for healthcare? :shock:

I'm all for immigration, but legaly. Illegal immigrants are criminals. They can get free healthcare in jail.
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Freakzilla
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Re: Health Care

Postby Freakzilla » 14 Aug 2009 15:18

Drunken Idaho wrote:Hey Freak! What wouldn't you do for weed?


Sacrafice the well being of my children... give up a body part... I think that's about it.
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Re: Health Care

Postby SandRider » 14 Aug 2009 15:42

swear to the little newborn baby jesus,
this woman got up at one of the townhalls
out here last week and told a congressman:

I don't want no socialized medicine - you leave my Medicare alone !!
................ I exist only to amuse myself ................
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Freakzilla
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Re: Health Care

Postby Freakzilla » 14 Aug 2009 16:26

SandRider wrote:swear to the little newborn baby jesus,
this woman got up at one of the townhalls
out here last week and told a congressman:

I don't want no socialized medicine - you leave my Medicare alone !!


:lol: Did anyone tell her she was already on socialized medicine?
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Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
~Pink Snowman