Health Care

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Nekhrun
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Re: Health Care

Postby Nekhrun » 21 Aug 2009 08:56

Freakzilla wrote:Dealer lots are full of dissabled cars. They're dissabled because they have to do that as part of the deal. If their paperwork is turned down, now they can't even sell them as used cars, they're just scrap!

Bend over, let me take your temperature. :wink:

Not according to a dealer in FL who claims the gov't owes him $700,000. He says he won't disable them until he knows the payments are coming. Maybe the dealers share some blame as well.
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Re: Health Care

Postby Drunken Idaho » 21 Aug 2009 09:34

SandRider wrote:#1 car turned under "cash for clunker" - Ford Explorer

#1 car purchased under "cash for clunkers" - Toyota Corolla


But doesn't the Cash-for-Clunkers thing only apply if you purchase a fuel-efficient vehicle? So what if a Japanese company is building cars that are more ideal for the average American? Maybe the American automakers will pull up their socks, and stop jerking people around with their planned obsolescence.

And yeah, it seems all the bailout-supported banks are doing better now. The thing is, they're also making record amounts in overdraft fees from everyone else being under-employed and strapped for cash. They are making money off of everyone else's lack of money. :crazy:

So it looks to me like the US is just setting itself up for future financial problems. Even if they do pull themselves out of this recession, it's bound to happen again maybe 10 or 15 years down the road.
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SandRider
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Re: Health Care

Postby SandRider » 21 Aug 2009 09:53

I think we've proven here that consumerism does
not feed the human spirit. We've created a material
paradise, the fattest human beings the world has ever
known, a standard of luxury & comfort unparalled in history,
but continue to bitch & moan & get angry & complain.

We're not happy.

I think America is a hollow, shiny shell.

(sorry to sound like Joe Smith here, but ....)
................ I exist only to amuse myself ................
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Nekhrun
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Re: Health Care

Postby Nekhrun » 21 Aug 2009 10:00

Drunken Idaho wrote:
SandRider wrote:#1 car turned under "cash for clunker" - Ford Explorer

#1 car purchased under "cash for clunkers" - Toyota Corolla


But doesn't the Cash-for-Clunkers thing only apply if you purchase a fuel-efficient vehicle? So what if a Japanese company is building cars that are more ideal for the average American? Maybe the American automakers will pull up their socks, and stop jerking people around with their planned obsolescence.

And yeah, it seems all the bailout-supported banks are doing better now. The thing is, they're also making record amounts in overdraft fees from everyone else being under-employed and strapped for cash. They are making money off of everyone else's lack of money. :crazy:

So it looks to me like the US is just setting itself up for future financial problems. Even if they do pull themselves out of this recession, it's bound to happen again maybe 10 or 15 years down the road.

It isn't all bad as many of those Toyotas are made here as well.

Edit: If GM had made most of the profit the government would be criticized for trying to help the auto manufacturer that it is in charge of. There is no situation in which this administration won't be criticized by the Right no matter what decision they make.
"If he was here to discuss Dune, he sure as hell picked a dumb way to do it." -Omphalos :character-cookiemonster:

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Drunken Idaho
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Re: Health Care

Postby Drunken Idaho » 21 Aug 2009 11:06

SandRider wrote:I think we've proven here that consumerism does
not feed the human spirit. We've created a material
paradise, the fattest human beings the world has ever
known, a standard of luxury & comfort unparalled in history,
but continue to bitch & moan & get angry & complain.

We're not happy.

I think America is a hollow, shiny shell.

(sorry to sound like Joe Smith here, but ....)


Very good point. I'm reminded of this clip from Conan... Some wise words:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXStPqhLmIk

"Everything is amazing, and no one is happy." The bit about high-speed internet on an airplane hits the nail on the head.
"The Idahos were never ordinary people."
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Crysknife
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Re: Health Care

Postby Crysknife » 21 Aug 2009 12:56

I think we should just elect Sean Hannity and all our problems will be solved, or is that a case of "the government sucks so elect me and I'll prove it?"

Oh well, ALL HAIL SEAN HANNITY!

:puke:
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Drunken Idaho
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Re: Health Care

Postby Drunken Idaho » 21 Aug 2009 15:38

Attention Canadians! Help urge the US to accept, support, embrace, and love universal healthcare like we do! Sign this petition...

http://www.avaaz.org/en/reform_health_care/?cl=298292675&v=3811

Hang in there, guys. The Canadians are looking out for you. :P
"The Idahos were never ordinary people."
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A Thing of Eternity
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Re: Health Care

Postby A Thing of Eternity » 21 Aug 2009 15:59

Ha, I doubt that will effect much, but at least someone is putting a serious effort together to explain to the US population just how many lies are being spoon fed to them by the conservatives. :lol:
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Robspierre
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Re: Health Care

Postby Robspierre » 22 Aug 2009 00:23

my 2005 Corolla was made here in the US and gets 42 mpg( keeping it under 3000 rpm's which is 80 mph, go over that and fuel economy drops to 38-39 mpg) with an automatic transmission. It's roomy enough for my lard ass and can stand up to being driven 1100 miles a week (yep this semester is going to be nuts, classes 5 days a week and observations in the classroom). I'm approaching 130k miles and no problems. It's not even broken in yet. Regular oil changes, and following the maintenance schedule means I will easily get another 200k + out of my vehicle.

A few domestic cars get in the 33-36 mpg range but they do not compare to Honda or Toyota for quality or mpg.

Rob

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Re: Health Care

Postby Eyes High » 22 Aug 2009 11:57

Drunken Idaho wrote:Attention Canadians! Help urge the US to accept, support, embrace, and love universal healthcare like we do! Sign this petition...

http://www.avaaz.org/en/reform_health_care/?cl=298292675&v=3811

Hang in there, guys. The Canadians are looking out for you. :P


Thanks :mrgreen:
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Freakzilla
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Re: Health Care

Postby Freakzilla » 10 Sep 2009 10:25

FACT CHECK: Obama uses iffy math on deficit pledge

By CALVIN WOODWARD and ERICA WERNER, Associated Press Writers Calvin Woodward And Erica Werner, Associated Press Writers – Thu Sep 10, 3:15 am ET

WASHINGTON – President Barack Obama used only-in-Washington accounting Wednesday when he promised to overhaul the nation's health care system without adding "one dime" to the deficit. By conventional arithmetic, Democratic plans would drive up the deficit by billions of dollars.

The president's speech to Congress contained a variety of oversimplifications and omissions in laying out what he wants to do about health insurance.

A look at some of Obama's claims and how they square with the facts or the fuller story:

___

OBAMA: "I will not sign a plan that adds one dime to our deficits either now or in the future. Period."

THE FACTS: Though there's no final plan yet, the White House and congressional Democrats already have shown they're ready to skirt the no-new-deficits pledge.

House Democrats offered a bill that the Congressional Budget Office said would add $220 billion to the deficit over 10 years. But Democrats and Obama administration officials claimed the bill actually was deficit-neutral. They said they simply didn't have to count $245 billion of it — the cost of adjusting Medicare reimbursement rates so physicians don't face big annual pay cuts.

Their reasoning was that they already had decided to exempt this "doc fix" from congressional rules that require new programs to be paid for. In other words, it doesn't have to be paid for because they decided it doesn't have to be paid for.

The administration also said that since Obama already had included the doctor payment in his 10-year budget proposal, it didn't have to be counted again.

That aside, the long-term prognosis for costs of the health care legislation has not been good.

CBO Director Douglas Elmendorf had this to say in July: "We do not see the sort of fundamental changes that would be necessary to reduce the trajectory of federal health spending by a significant amount."

___

OBAMA: "Nothing in this plan will require you or your employer to change the coverage or the doctor you have."

THE FACTS: That's correct, as far as it goes. But neither can the plan guarantee that people can keep their current coverage. Employers sponsor coverage for most families, and they'd be free to change their health plans in ways that workers may not like, or drop insurance altogether. The Congressional Budget Office analyzed the health care bill written by House Democrats and said that by 2016 some 3 million people who now have employer-based care would lose it because their employers would decide to stop offering it.

In the past Obama repeatedly said, "If you like your health care plan, you'll be able to keep your health care plan, period." Now he's stopping short of that unconditional guarantee by saying nothing in the plan "requires" any change.

___

OBAMA: "The reforms I'm proposing would not apply to those who are here illegally." One congressman, South Carolina Republican Joe Wilson, shouted "You lie!" from his seat in the House chamber when Obama made this assertion. Wilson later apologized.

THE FACTS: The facts back up Obama. The House version of the health care bill explicitly prohibits spending any federal money to help illegal immigrants get health care coverage. Illegal immigrants could buy private health insurance, as many do now, but wouldn't get tax subsidies to help them. Still, Republicans say there are not sufficient citizenship verification requirements to ensure illegal immigrants are excluded from benefits they are not due.

___

OBAMA: "Don't pay attention to those scary stories about how your benefits will be cut. ... That will never happen on my watch. I will protect Medicare."

THE FACTS: Obama and congressional Democrats want to pay for their health care plans in part by reducing Medicare payments to providers by more than $500 billion over 10 years. The cuts would largely hit hospitals and Medicare Advantage, the part of the Medicare program operated through private insurance companies.

Although wasteful spending in Medicare is widely acknowledged, many experts believe some seniors almost certainly would see reduced benefits from the cuts. That's particularly true for the 25 percent of Medicare users covered through Medicare Advantage.

Supporters contend that providers could absorb the cuts by improving how they operate and wouldn't have to reduce benefits or pass along costs. But there's certainly no guarantee they wouldn't.

___

OBAMA: Requiring insurance companies to cover preventive care like mammograms and colonoscopies "makes sense, it saves money, and it saves lives."

THE FACTS: Studies have shown that much preventive care — particularly tests like the ones Obama mentions — actually costs money instead of saving it. That's because detecting acute diseases like breast cancer in their early stages involves testing many people who would never end up developing the disease. The costs of a large number of tests, even if they're relatively cheap, will outweigh the costs of caring for the minority of people who would have ended up getting sick without the testing.

The Congressional Budget Office wrote in August: "The evidence suggests that for most preventive services, expanded utilization leads to higher, not lower, medical spending overall."

That doesn't mean preventive care doesn't make sense or save lives. It just doesn't save money.

___

OBAMA: "If you lose your job or change your job, you will be able to get coverage. If you strike out on your own and start a small business, you will be able to get coverage."

THE FACTS: It's not just a matter of being able to get coverage. Most people would have to get coverage under the law, if his plan is adopted.

In his speech, Obama endorsed mandatory coverage for individuals, an approach he did not embrace as a candidate.

He proposed during the campaign — as he does now — that larger businesses be required to offer insurance to workers or else pay into a fund. But he rejected the idea of requiring individuals to obtain insurance. He said people would get insurance without being forced to do so by the law, if coverage were made affordable. And he repeatedly criticized his Democratic primary rival, Hillary Rodham Clinton, for proposing to mandate coverage.

"To force people to get health insurance, you've got to have a very harsh penalty," he said in a February 2008 debate.

Now, he says, "individuals will be required to carry basic health insurance — just as most states require you to carry auto insurance."

He proposes a hardship waiver, exempting from the requirement those who cannot afford coverage despite increased federal aid.

___

OBAMA: "There are now more than 30 million American citizens who cannot get coverage."

THE FACTS: Obama time and again has referred to the number of uninsured as 46 million, a figure based on year-old Census data. The new number is based on an analysis by the Kaiser Commission on Medicaid and the Uninsured, which concluded that about two-thirds of Americans without insurance are poor or near poor. "These individuals are less likely to be offered employer-sponsored coverage or to be able to afford to purchase their own coverage," the report said. By using the new figure, Obama avoids criticism that he is including individuals, particularly healthy young people, who choose not to obtain health insurance.

___

Associated Press writer Jim Kuhnhenn contributed to this report.
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Drunken Idaho
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Re: Health Care

Postby Drunken Idaho » 14 Oct 2009 11:42

Here's an article from the L.A. Times which attempts to refute the lies spread about Canadian healthcare by private organizations. I've highlighted some interesting parts:

The L.A. Times wrote:A Canadian doctor diagnoses U.S. healthcare
The caricature of 'socialized medicine' is used by corporate interests to confuse Americans and maintain their bottom lines instead of patients' health.
By Michael M. Rachlis|August 03, 2009

Universal health insurance is on the American policy agenda for the fifth time since World War II. In the 1960s, the U.S. chose public coverage for only the elderly and the very poor, while Canada opted for a universal program for hospitals and physicians' services. As a policy analyst, I know there are lessons to be learned from studying the effect of different approaches in similar jurisdictions. But, as a Canadian with lots of American friends and relatives, I am saddened that Americans seem incapable of learning them.

Our countries are joined at the hip. We peacefully share a continent, a British heritage of representative government and now ownership of GM. And, until 50 years ago, we had similar health systems, healthcare costs and vital statistics.

The U.S.' and Canada's different health insurance decisions make up the world's largest health policy experiment. And the results?

On coverage, all Canadians have insurance for hospital and physician services. There are no deductibles or co-pays. Most provinces also provide coverage for programs for home care, long-term care, pharmaceuticals and durable medical equipment, although there are co-pays.

On the U.S. side, 46 million people have no insurance, millions are underinsured and healthcare bills bankrupt more than 1 million Americans every year.

Lesson No. 1: A single-payer system would eliminate most U.S. coverage problems.

On costs, Canada spends 10% of its economy on healthcare; the U.S. spends 16%. The extra 6% of GDP amounts to more than $800 billion per year. The spending gap between the two nations is almost entirely because of higher overhead. Canadians don't need thousands of actuaries to set premiums or thousands of lawyers to deny care. Even the U.S. Medicare program has 80% to 90% lower administrative costs than private Medicare Advantage policies. And providers and suppliers can't charge as much when they have to deal with a single payer.

Lessons No. 2 and 3: Single-payer systems reduce duplicative administrative costs and can negotiate lower prices.

Because most of the difference in spending is for non-patient care, Canadians actually get more of most services. We see the doctor more often and take more drugs. We even have more lung transplant surgery. We do get less heart surgery, but not so much less that we are any more likely to die of heart attacks. And we now live nearly three years longer, and our infant mortality is 20% lower.

Lesson No. 4: Single-payer plans can deliver the goods because their funding goes to services, not overhead.

The Canadian system does have its problems, and these also provide important lessons. Notwithstanding a few well-publicized and misleading cases, Canadians needing urgent care get immediate treatment. But we do wait too long for much elective care, including appointments with family doctors and specialists and selected surgical procedures. We also do a poor job managing chronic disease.

However, according to the New York-based Commonwealth Fund, both the American and the Canadian systems fare badly in these areas. In fact, an April U.S. Government Accountability Office report noted that U.S. emergency room wait times have increased, and patients who should be seen immediately are now waiting an average of 28 minutes. The GAO has also raised concerns about two- to four-month waiting times for mammograms.

On closer examination, most of these problems have little to do with public insurance or even overall resources. Despite the delays, the GAO said there is enough mammogram capacity.

These problems are largely caused by our shared politico-cultural barriers to quality of care. In 19th century North America, doctors waged a campaign against quacks and snake-oil salesmen and attained a legislative monopoly on medical practice. In return, they promised to set and enforce standards of practice. By and large, it didn't happen. And perverse incentives like fee-for-service make things even worse.

Using techniques like those championed by the Boston-based Institute for Healthcare Improvement, providers can eliminate most delays. In Hamilton, Ontario, 17 psychiatrists have linked up with 100 family doctors and 80 social workers to offer some of the world's best access to mental health services. And in Toronto, simple process improvements mean you can now get your hip assessed in one week and get a new one, if you need it, within a month.

Lesson No. 5: Canadian healthcare delivery problems have nothing to do with our single-payer system and can be fixed by re-engineering for quality.

U.S. health policy would be miles ahead if policymakers could learn these lessons. But they seem less interested in Canada's, or any other nation's, experience than ever. Why?

American democracy runs on money. Pharmaceutical and insurance companies have the fuel. Analysts see hundreds of billions of premiums wasted on overhead that could fund care for the uninsured. But industry executives and shareholders see bonuses and dividends.

Compounding the confusion is traditional American ignorance of what happens north of the border, which makes it easy to mislead people. Boilerplate anti-government rhetoric does the same. The U.S. media, legislators and even presidents have claimed that our "socialized" system doesn't let us choose our own doctors. In fact, Canadians have free choice of physicians. It's Americans these days who are restricted to "in-plan" doctors.

Unfortunately, many Americans won't get to hear the straight goods because vested interests are promoting a caricature of the Canadian experience.


Michael M. Rachlis is a physician, health policy analyst and author in Toronto.


Edit: Here's the link:
http://articles.latimes.com/2009/aug/03/opinion/oe-rachlis3?pg=2
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Crysknife
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Re: Health Care

Postby Crysknife » 14 Oct 2009 16:55

The guy that wrote that must be a damned liberal. Just watch Fox News.....you'll see.
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Re: Health Care

Postby Drunken Idaho » 14 Oct 2009 17:16

Crysknife wrote:The guy that wrote that must be a damned liberal. Just watch Fox News.....you'll see.


But of course...
I reiterate:
Unfortunately, many Americans won't get to hear the straight goods because vested interests are promoting a caricature of the Canadian experience.
"The Idahos were never ordinary people."
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A Thing of Eternity
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Re: Health Care

Postby A Thing of Eternity » 16 Oct 2009 16:37

Just thinking about the lies many Americans are being fed about healthcare got me to thinking about mine. One of the myths being spread by FOX and the likes is that having socialized medicine somehow would destroy private healthcare and insurance, but, wait... I have private insurance. It costs me $30 and a couple cents a month, and it covers whatever my provincial insurance doesn't, because... (get ready for another myth) Canada doesn't have free healthcare like everyone like to say we do. What we have is rediculously cheap healthcare.

We still have to pay for ambulance rides (about $340 bucks in my area, not sure what they are in the US), casts for broken bones (visit to the doctor to do this is free here, few hundred dollars in the US, and the cast is about 20 or 30 bucks here, hundreds in the US... a quick bit of googling has tought me that the average american is going to pay thousands of dollars if they break a bone, depending on their deductable of course), we pay for prescription medication ($ all over the place obviously) and pretty much everything else you can think of that actually involved some kind of physical object.

Not sure what my point is, just felt like ranting I guess.
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Omphalos
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Re: Health Care

Postby Omphalos » 16 Oct 2009 17:15

I see tons of ambulance bills in the US. Most of them seem to be for $791, no matter where you are, but they can come in between $600 and $1,000 for an ambulance ride, no matter how many miles you go. Lifeflight goes for about $11K.

Broken bones that get casted costs between $6K and $12K in the US, but can go way up if the doctor does an open reduction/internal fixation surgery.

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Re: Health Care

Postby A Thing of Eternity » 16 Oct 2009 17:32

Omphalos wrote:I see tons of ambulance bills in the US. Most of them seem to be for $791, no matter where you are, but they can come in between $600 and $1,000 for an ambulance ride, no matter how many miles you go. Lifeflight goes for about $11K.


That's actually not too bad for the ground ride, I expected worse. Same thing here, it's a set price regardless of if you go 1 mile or 80. I assume lifeflight is the air-ambulance helicopter? That's pretty steep. My brother had to take on of those once, don't remember it costing any more than the usual ambulance ride, which was covered by our private insurance anyways.

Broken bones that get casted costs between $6K and $12K in the US, but can go way up if the doctor does an open reduction/internal fixation surgery.


Between 6 and 12K?!?! :shock: Holy fuck. That is way worse than my quick internetting turned up. Broken bones here are literally the price of the cast and that's it. We're talking pocket change.

Again - I'm not arguing that now is a good time for the USA to set up a real socialized medicine system, but I am saying that anyone who actually believes their current system is better is delusional, especially looking at that big comparison Drunken Idaho posted up (which is admittedly biased, but still).
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Re: Health Care

Postby Freakzilla » 16 Oct 2009 17:47

My kids have broken several bones, it was a $30 office visit, sometimes we had to pay $50 for an extra x-ray.
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A Thing of Eternity
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Re: Health Care

Postby A Thing of Eternity » 16 Oct 2009 17:55

Freakzilla wrote:My kids have broken several bones, it was a $30 office visit, sometimes we had to pay $50 for an extra x-ray.


That sounds reasonable, you already pay into a really good (and expensive) insurance plan though right? That's on top of what they cover?
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Re: Health Care

Postby Freakzilla » 16 Oct 2009 18:08

A Thing of Eternity wrote:
Freakzilla wrote:My kids have broken several bones, it was a $30 office visit, sometimes we had to pay $50 for an extra x-ray.


That sounds reasonable, you already pay into a really good (and expensive) insurance plan though right? That's on top of what they cover?


My health insurance is $143.40 biweekly, Dental is $11.16. That's actually not bad compared to some company health plans I've had. Honeywells is cheaper because they're global and have so many employees. I also have accidental death or dismemberment insurance for $0.52 and long term dissability for $7.18.

Everytime one of my family goes to the doctor we have to pay a $30 "copay". Specialists are a little more, like $50 and an emergency room visit is $100. Generic prescriptions are $10. For some things I may have to pay lab or x-ray fees of $50.

For major services, like surgery I have a yearly deductable, it's either $500 or 1000.

We also have the option of putting money into a healthcare fund. I think single people like to use that.

Like I said, I don't think it's expensive.
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Re: Health Care

Postby Crysknife » 16 Oct 2009 19:32

Broken bones are one thing, just don't get MD:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2363301/posts

BTW:

Last year Guardian reported $437 million profits, up 50 percent from 2007. -Huffington Post



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Omphalos
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Re: Health Care

Postby Omphalos » 16 Oct 2009 21:45

A Thing of Eternity wrote:
Freakzilla wrote:My kids have broken several bones, it was a $30 office visit, sometimes we had to pay $50 for an extra x-ray.


That sounds reasonable, you already pay into a really good (and expensive) insurance plan though right? That's on top of what they cover?


The prices I gave are what providers bill insurance companies, not what people would pay out of pocket. That can be negotiated, usually pretty steeply. One thing I do occasionally in cases that I handle where people are arguing that I should pay 100% of their medical bills to resolve a case is go to the hospital or whatever and negotiate a payment of 50% or sometimes even lower (I have gotten it as low as 10% before). Medical service providers regularly negotiate their bills, sometimes because they are afraid that they will never get paid, sometimes because they are limited on the amount that they can get back by statute.

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Re: Health Care

Postby SandRider » 16 Oct 2009 23:18

I've commented on this issue here recently, as I recall - it's one of the unresolved
(and undiscussed) issues in all this healthcare claptrap.

my insurance works like this :

medical service bills Blue Cross & Blue Shield,
BC/BS sends the bill to Lineco, the Line Construction Benefit Fund, (Electrical Worker's Union)
Lineco authorizes BS/BS to pay the bill. Now, what I don't know is what Lineco actually pays
BC/BS - this seems to be a sooper sekrit eyes-only need-to-know process.

anyway, BC/BS never pays more than a fraction of what was billed by the medical service.

f'instance, just got a statement from Lineco that they had authorized BC/BS to pay for the
last round of lab work I just had, a bucketful of blood & and EKG. The hospital originally billed
this as $4,682. BC/BS paid them $1,012.

so, if I didn't have insurance, would I have been required to pay the original amount ?

what was the actual cost of the procedures performed ?
why doesn't medical service bill the insurance companies that cost ?
WTF is going on here ?
what's all this negotiation bullshit ?

anyway, I've paid all the out-of-pocket I'm required to for this year ($1800),
so I'm planning on running up a fuck of a bill between now and Christmas.
My back still hurts, I think I had another stroke, my feet hurt, I wanna MRI,
one of them sonagram things on my heart where the cute little nurse takes my
shirt off and rubs me with a gelled-up vibrator, my penis hasn't worked right since the
early 90s, and for the love of the little Baby Jesus, give me drugs. Lots of drugs,
experimental drugs, all the new expensive drugs they're pushing the doctors to
prescribe that don't work any better than the old, cheap drugs. I want an Xray of
my knee, it pops something fierce when I get up off the shitter, and take more
blood, you vampires.

huh.
maybe old cranky bastards like me are the problem with healthcare ?

naw, fuck that.


I don't want no Socialized Medicine! You leave my Medicare alone, Obama!
................ I exist only to amuse myself ................
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I personally feel that this message board, Jacurutu, is full of hateful folks who don't know
how to fully interact with people.
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Omphalos
Inglorious Bastard
Posts: 6621
Joined: 05 Feb 2008 11:07
Location: The Mighty Central Valley of California
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Re: Health Care

Postby Omphalos » 17 Oct 2009 03:12

Medical providers spread their costs as much as they can because they are required to treat people who come into their emergency rooms regardless of their ability to pay, and because Medicare and Medicade typically pay only pennies on the dollar for care that qualifies for reimbursement. I remember back when I was doing worker's comp (truly a miserable practice) I would see invoices that indicated that they were paying 12.5% to 25% for services. With cuts like that the medical billing system has truly become a nightmare of complexity. Medical billing is actually a profession you can get a degree in now. The fact is when you have an emergency service that needs to be performed you get billed by the hospital for the space you take up, the time you require, the items they use in your care, for the ambulance ride, the doctor's own time, etc., etc. Don't bother trying to figure out what was actually expended on you. It's buried way too deeply for mere mortals to figure out.

If you don't have insurance, negotiation is even more likely. They want to collect something, and if you have no insurance, they know that they are likely to get stiffed. I once had an emergency procedure when I was a kid. Fortunately I had a catastrophic policy, but it only paid 80% after the first $2K. I got them down to $800 for about $10K worth of exposure.

If you've hit your yearly high deductible, go for it, man! Get that knee scoped and get set up now for some epidural steroid injections in the back. That way you can probably squeeze another course before the end of December. As for the bad boner...you're on your own! :D

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Freakzilla
Lead Singer and Driver of the Winnebego
Posts: 18147
Joined: 05 Feb 2008 01:27
Location: Atlanta, Georgia, USA
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Re: Health Care

Postby Freakzilla » 17 Oct 2009 09:23

Can't your union get your coverage to include Viagra? :P
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Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
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