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    Global Warming

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    Global Warming

    Postby SandRider » 19 Feb 2009 12:59

    THIS TOPIC HAS BEEN SPLIT FROM ANOTHER

    As much as I think the oil industry is the Child of Satan and everything should be run off
    renewable electricity, that's not going to happen for atleast 100 years.

    I remember seeing a report on the Alberta oil sands back in the early 80s - the projections for
    just how much oil was there were staggering. So staggering, it scared the Arabs into overproduction
    and the drastic fall in prices back then. (There were other reasons, of course, but the threat of the
    potential production was a part of it.)

    The problem was the technology required to process the oil was incredibly expensive and in its
    infancy. That's not true today. So you've got to look at the real economic benefits to Canada in
    exploiting this resource and the desire to balance power with the oil-producing Arab countries.
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    Postby Freakzilla » 19 Feb 2009 13:10

    I've heard that there's more oil under the Alaskan North Slope than in Saudi Arabia.
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    Postby SandRider » 19 Feb 2009 13:16

    Y'all will have to fight the Russians for that.

    Better start the military build-up now ....
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    Postby Freakzilla » 19 Feb 2009 13:21

    Baraka Bryan wrote:...due to global warming...


    *cough, cough* BULLSHIT! *cough, cough*
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    Postby Freakzilla » 19 Feb 2009 13:23

    SandRider wrote:Y'all will have to fight the Russians for that.

    Better start the military build-up now ....


    Hey, they sold us that land fair and square.
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    Postby SandRider » 19 Feb 2009 13:26

    no, not Alaska, Sarah & Todd Palin have got us covered on that.

    there's large sections of the arctic technically claimed by the Beaver and the Bear ...

    and all that's been foretold in the Book of Daniel ....
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    Postby Ampoliros » 19 Feb 2009 13:35

    So....25 years from now the World's Superpowers will be China and Canada?!?!?!

    "Okay, so who's the president in 1985."
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    Postby Drunken Idaho » 19 Feb 2009 13:52

    Pfffft....

    I'm amazed to find people on a DUNE board so ignorant of the impact a population can have on its own planet. Frank Herbert would back me up in saying that humans are largely responsible for the current shift in climate.

    Fact 1: CO2 makes things get hotter, as it's more susceptible to the greenhouse effect.

    Fact 2: Humans produce shitloads of CO2. Much more than the natural carbon cycle can stay on top of.


    People who maintain an attitude of "Humans ain't responsible, so I ain't changing SHIT about the way I live!" are ignorant, misinformed, and irresponsible. Some people are just way too happy with their giant SUVs to give a damn, and I think that's a very small-minded attitude.

    And Freak, it's one thing to deny that humans contribute to climate change, but to deny that the polar ice caps are melting due to an increase in global temperature is absurd. I do wish you'd clarify.

    That said, leaders should no longer be bickering over the causes of Global Warming anyway. I think the damage has been done long ago. What's important now is figuring out ways to adapt. Basically, the commercial western lifestyle as we know it, is at an end. Hopefully an age of smart living is dawning, rather than some of the more doomy-gloomy scenarios you hear about.
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    Postby Freakzilla » 19 Feb 2009 14:01

    SandRider wrote:no, not Alaska, Sarah & Todd Palin have got us covered on that.

    there's large sections of the arctic technically claimed by the Beaver and the Bear ...


    Oh yeah, I remember recently the Russians planted a flag at the bottom of the Arctic via nuclear sub.

    ..and all that's been foretold in the Book of Daniel ....


    *cough, cough* BULLSHIT! *cough, cough*
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    Postby Drunken Idaho » 19 Feb 2009 14:07

    But it's not just greenpeace, not even just Al Gore or David Suzuki... It's scientists! That's right, the scientific community. No one has any other agenda, except for preserving a livable environment for humans. People don't attack cars and CO2 emissions just for fun. They have solid reasons, and it all has to do with the greenhouse effect. This is basic stuff.
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    Postby Freakzilla » 19 Feb 2009 14:10

    Drunken Idaho wrote:But it's not just greenpeace, not even just Al Gore or David Suzuki... It's scientists! That's right, the scientific community. No one has any other agenda, except for preserving a livable environment for humans. People don't attack cars and CO2 emissions just for fun. They have solid reasons, and it all has to do with the greenhouse effect. This is basic stuff.


    There are scientists who say the opposite too. As for the ones we hear about pimping global warming not having an agenda...

    *cough, cough* BULLSHIT! *cough, cough*

    http://www.junkscience.com/Greenhouse/
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    Postby Drunken Idaho » 19 Feb 2009 14:16

    So what's their agenda, Freak?

    "Gawd, I hate cars! Ohhh I just hate them so much! So convenient! AGH I HATE THEM! Whatever will I do? Eureka! I'll falsely claim that they're killing the planet. Yes, that'll work. That'll put an end to those pesky CARS! And don't get me started on coal..."
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    Postby A Thing of Eternity » 19 Feb 2009 14:19

    Baraka Bryan wrote:
    of course, if we were in a period of global cooling, greenpeace would be blaming all of humanity for that as well.



    That’s a pretty immature baseless (and pointless) comment.

    Have your opinions, but stupid comments like this achieve nothing but making you look like a child. "They" say that humans are causing global warming because that's what the majority of scientists say the data supports. Agree or disagree, but deal with it like an adult.
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    Postby A Thing of Eternity » 19 Feb 2009 14:22

    Freakzilla wrote:
    Drunken Idaho wrote:But it's not just greenpeace, not even just Al Gore or David Suzuki... It's scientists! That's right, the scientific community. No one has any other agenda, except for preserving a livable environment for humans. People don't attack cars and CO2 emissions just for fun. They have solid reasons, and it all has to do with the greenhouse effect. This is basic stuff.


    There are scientists who say the opposite too. As for the ones we hear about pimping global warming not having an agenda...

    *cough, cough* BULLSHIT! *cough, cough*

    http://www.junkscience.com/Greenhouse/


    I can give you an identical link that proves evolution didn't happen and we lived alongside dinosours. :lol: I'll bet 50$ some of the same "scientists" are involved in both positions.

    The fact of the matter is that we are dumping poison into our environment at an alarming rate. GW or no GW the results are going to be unpleasant for everything that lives on this ball of rock.
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    Postby Freakzilla » 19 Feb 2009 14:25

    Drunken Idaho wrote:So what's their agenda, Freak?

    "Gawd, I hate cars! Ohhh I just hate them so much! So convenient! AGH I HATE THEM! Whatever will I do? Eureka! I'll falsely claim that they're killing the planet. Yes, that'll work. That'll put an end to those pesky CARS! And don't get me started on coal..."


    Here's a hint: As "Deep Throat" famously told Washington Post "Watergate" reporter Bob Woodward, "Follow the money."
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    Postby Drunken Idaho » 19 Feb 2009 14:27

    junkscience.com wrote:This does seem to cause some confusion so, to highlight the distinction between actual greenhouses and Earth's inaccurately named greenhouse effect simply note that greenhouse temperatures are maintained by controlling the mixing air inside and outside the greenhouse (if it's too warm in the greenhouse you open a top and bottom window and let convective action displace warmed air with cool) while Earth's atmosphere is surrounded by the near-vacuum of space.


    I'm not even going to cough. This is utter bullshit. Even the graphs below, which support the above quote, are such nonsense. Have you considered not using a website called "Junk Science" as your source? Because that is what this is.

    I'm aware of the scientific minority on the issue. There always is a minority, even with evolution and such. But the majority agree, and I simply don't see why they would falsify or exaggerate any facts.
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    Postby Freakzilla » 19 Feb 2009 14:28

    A Thing of Eternity wrote:
    Freakzilla wrote:
    Drunken Idaho wrote:But it's not just greenpeace, not even just Al Gore or David Suzuki... It's scientists! That's right, the scientific community. No one has any other agenda, except for preserving a livable environment for humans. People don't attack cars and CO2 emissions just for fun. They have solid reasons, and it all has to do with the greenhouse effect. This is basic stuff.


    There are scientists who say the opposite too. As for the ones we hear about pimping global warming not having an agenda...

    *cough, cough* BULLSHIT! *cough, cough*

    http://www.junkscience.com/Greenhouse/


    I can give you an identical link that proves evolution didn't happen and we lived alongside dinosours. :lol: I'll bet 50$ some of the same "scientists" are involved in both positions.

    The fact of the matter is that we are dumping poison into our environment at an alarming rate. GW or no GW the results are going to be unpleasant for everything that lives on this ball of rock.


    I can show you evidence that the universe was created by The Flying Spaghetti Monster.

    If you're going to dismiss any evidence I post like that there's no point having this discussion.
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    Postby Freakzilla » 19 Feb 2009 14:30

    Sorry, go sell your fear somewhere else.
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    Postby A Thing of Eternity » 19 Feb 2009 14:33

    There is no point to having this discussion. We've both already decided what our positions are based on what we've been told. Interestingly enough, we both seem to conveniently believe the side of the issue that lines up with our worldviews, so we're likely both biased - regardless of which one of us agrees with the majority and which with the minority.

    I think we both like to sell our own fear here Freak. We're both biased and we should both admit it.
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    Postby Freakzilla » 19 Feb 2009 14:36

    http://friendsofscience.org/index.php?ide=4

    (A Canadian Group!)

    It is our opinion that the Sun is the main direct and indirect driver of
    climate change.
    Variations in solar activity and cosmic rays correlate to temperature much
    better than CO2. This may be because an electro-magnetically active sun
    diverts cosmic rays from hitting the atmosphere. Cosmic rays have been
    shown experimentally to assist in cloud formation. Fewer cosmic rays
    result in reduced low cloud cover, which allows more sunlight to warm the
    Earth’s surface.
    The United Nations - IPCC reports have been misrepresented by the nonscientific
    IPCC bureaucrats in preparing the Summary-for-Policy-Makers.
    Recent research casts doubt on historical data used by the IPCC. Urban
    effects have contaminated surface temperature data. Some measured CO2
    levels of the past 180 years appear to be in excess of present levels.
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    Postby Freakzilla » 19 Feb 2009 14:47

    I've seen reports that state an increase of trees in areas usually covered only by snow is causeing less solar radiation to be reflected back into space off the snow.

    So you can blame trees for global warming.

    Look, I'm not saying it doesn't exist, just that I don't think we're nearly as responsisble as we're led to believe.
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    Postby A Thing of Eternity » 19 Feb 2009 15:02

    Fari enough, my complaint isn't people arguing the degree to which we cause GW, it's that people who decide it's a small degree seem (often, not necessarily you here) to take that as a free pass to pollute. I've said it many times, but GW is only one of a plethora of problems being caused by our pollution. Even if we knew 100% that cutting back our CO2 emmissions wouldn't slow the warming we still would need to do it as fast as bloody possible, because we're litterally killing the planet - and we happen to need it just a little bit.

    Not some much to do with being a tree hugger (though I do believe that we have a literal moral obligation to treat our fellow lifeforms with respect on this planet) - everything to do with self preservation.
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    Postby Freakzilla » 19 Feb 2009 15:10

    I'm all for polluting less and this man-made-global-warming-scare-tactic may be the only thing that breaks our dependance on foreign fuel, short of running out.

    But I don't think we can take 100-200 years of records and make predictions for a 4.7B-year-old planet.

    Hell, they can barely predict what the weather is going to be like tomorrow!
    Last edited by Freakzilla on 19 Feb 2009 15:10, edited 1 time in total.
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    Postby A Thing of Eternity » 19 Feb 2009 15:10

    Back on topic - I think it's hilarious how much security the Pres gets, secret routes, snipers on roofs etc - our leader we just leave to the wolves.

    How much security does our PM even get? I imagine he has a few security officers that travel with him, but certainly no snipers! Ah, the joys of being a less important country, save money on this kind of stuff. :D Kinda funny.
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    Postby Freakzilla » 19 Feb 2009 15:12

    A Thing of Eternity wrote:Back on topic - I think it's hilarious how much security the Pres gets, secret routes, snipers on roofs etc - our leader we just leave to the wolves.

    How much security does our PM even get? I imagine he has a few security officers that travel with him, but certainly no snipers! Ah, the joys of being a less important country, save money on this kind of stuff. :D Kinda funny.


    Nice try, attempting to be on topic!

    I split the topic...

    :twisted:
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