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Energy

Posted: 22 Apr 2009 12:40
by Freakzilla
Last night while contemplating my $650 natural gas bill, I decided to buy and install an tankless, electric hot water heater.

PowerStar AE 125 Electric Tankless Water Heater

The PowerStar AE-125 electric tankless water heater is designed to replace an electric storage tank heater. Advantages include endless hot water, reduced electricity costs and substantial space savings. Provides 4.0 gal. per minute for water usage at 105° F (assumes 60° F inlet temp.) for 1 shower or bathtub or 2 sinks simultaneously. 240 volt. 95% efficiency rating. 10 year warranty on unit, 1 year on parts. REQUIRES Hard Wiring and 120AMPS

Requires 240V Hard Wiring and 120 Amps
This Model Requires 3 Separate 40 Amp 2-Pole Circuit Breakers and Six #8 Awg Wires + Ground (Min. 200 Amp Breaker Panel)
95% Efficiency Rating
External Temperature Control Knob
Flow Sensor to Provide a Constant Output Temperature
EcoOption : Eco Options
MFG Brand Name : PowerStar
MFG Model # : AE-125
MFG Part # : AE-125

ADA Compliant : No
Amperage : 120 A.
Assembled Depth (In Inches) : 4.5 In.
Assembled Height (In Inches) : 15.5 In.
Assembled Weight (In LBS) : 22
Assembled Width (In Inches) : 15.25 In.
BTU Heat Rating : 0 Btu/h
CSA Safety Listing : Yes
Commercial/Residential : Residential
Draft Hood Size : 0 In.
ETL Safety Listing : No
Energy Star Compliant : No
EnergyPlus : False
Flow Rate @ 45°F Rise : 4 GPM
Fuel Type : Electric
Gas Connection Size : N/A
Gas Or Electric : Electric
Gas Type : Other
Height : 15.5 In.
Maximum BTU : 0 Btu.
Tank Capacity : N/A Gal.
Temperature Range : up to 131°F
Voltage : 240 V.
Warranty (Labor) : 0.00
Warranty (Parts) : some
Water Connection Size : 3/4"
Watts : 26850 W.
Weight : 22 Lbs.

$649.00

Re: Energy

Posted: 22 Apr 2009 13:26
by Rakis
Hmmm...interesting, but how much can you save ?

Re: Energy

Posted: 22 Apr 2009 14:06
by Spicelon
Dude, what y'all got running on gas? I know Atlanta can have a little wintery weather, but dear lord if you're spending $600+ for hot water, I'd say it's a usage problem.

Seriously though, it looks like the new hot water system will be a money saver, but how long to recover the cost of the system? Too long, I bet. More data needed.

Re: Energy

Posted: 22 Apr 2009 14:34
by Freakzilla
Think about this, it takes a lot longer to heat a whole tank of water with gas than it does to heat 4 gallons a minute with electricity. They claim 95% efficiency.

That bill was for more than one month, last month I think we used $200. 6 people bathing, a few loads of laundry and at least one load of dishes a day. Then hand washing (at least, for me) and cooking.

I may want to eventually do two heaters, one for the baths and one for the kitchen???

I thinking of ways to get rid of my gas furnace now too, maybe radiant floor heat for the main level, it's above the garage and basement so it would be easy to install. Maybe individual room heaters upstairs, it stays pretty warm up their anyway.

Then I'd be all electric and I could look into solar panels to save on electricity. Some states will pay for it, I don't know about mine yet...

Re: Energy

Posted: 22 Apr 2009 14:44
by Eyes High
My brother-n-law was trying to sell us on one of those tankless heaters, but I kept thinking if it was so great then why didn't he get it? (Both of us had our hot water heaters to burst on us within two weeks of eachother.)

We don't use natural gas at our house. We had the option for it when we first got this house but I was leary of gas. I just don't trust it. (Leaks and such)

But let us know if it does save you money and how it works with the shower and everything. That was one thing my husband was concerned about. How long would hot water last for showers. (We have 5 in our family.)

Re: Energy

Posted: 22 Apr 2009 15:02
by Freakzilla
The $650 unit I'm looking at claims do one shower OR one bath OR two sinks CONTINUOSLY at 105 degrees F at 4 gallons per minute.

One of the reviews I read said that in conjunction with low flow shower heads and a somewhat warm water service temperature to start with (I believe it will raise whatever temp you have 35 degrees, max 140?) which I'm sure we do in my region.

There is also an under-sink model to do one sink for $200.

I'm sure I will like to have one for the upstairs (kids/guest) bath and one for the master bath and one for the kitchen, eventually so we won't have to worry if we want to have two baths, dishes and cooking all going at once. The unit is smaller than 16" x 16" x 6" and mount on the wall. That maximun setup would even take up less space that the HWH.

Realistically I think that will happen rarely. But like I said, for one shower at 4 gpm, you never run out of hot water.

Re: Energy

Posted: 22 Apr 2009 16:01
by Phaedrus
Huh. Over here in Alabama, the power company will sometimes provide those for free, assuming you install it yourself.

Re: Energy

Posted: 22 Apr 2009 16:11
by Freakzilla
Phaedrus wrote:Huh. Over here in Alabama, the power company will sometimes provide those for free, assuming you install it yourself.


No kidding! I'll call my electric company...

Re: Energy

Posted: 22 Apr 2009 16:18
by Freakzilla
Freakzilla wrote:
Phaedrus wrote:Huh. Over here in Alabama, the power company will sometimes provide those for free, assuming you install it yourself.


No kidding! I'll call my electric company...


REPLACE GAS WATER HEATER WITH ELECTRIC Rebate of $425

Requirements:

Minimum 50-gallon tank
Minimum .90 Energy Efficiency Rating (EF). If less than .90, then an installed water heater jacket is required.
Pipes insulated (6 ft.minimum for hot water line, 2ft. minimum for cold water line)
Original receipt for water heater tank
Request for allowance within 90 days of installation

:banana-dreads:

Re: Energy

Posted: 22 Apr 2009 16:56
by Phaedrus
I do believe victory is yours.

Re: Energy

Posted: 22 Apr 2009 17:09
by A Thing of Eternity
Victory indeed! I guess it always is worth looking into...

Re: Energy

Posted: 22 Apr 2009 18:35
by Robspierre
Freak, those are nice but if you have hard water then it isn't worth it. That's why you don't see them out here, it's impossible even with filters and softeners to keep them from getting clogged up with as hard as our water is, so the cost just isn't worth it.

Rob

Re: Energy

Posted: 22 Apr 2009 19:01
by SandChigger
I can't recall ever seeing a tank-style water heater over here; they're all little wall mounted natural gas units (in smaller apartments) or kerosene or electric units outside or in a special utility area (houses and larger "mansion" apartments).

I've thought about getting one for my house if and when I ever move back permanently.

Re: Energy

Posted: 22 Apr 2009 19:22
by SwordMaster
Im always suprised solar power is still fairly untapped, if we put half the money of the iraq war into RnD for solar, we would all pay nothing for energy

We will make electricity so cheap that only the rich will burn candles." ~ Thomas Edison

I really hate Edison because of how he treated Telsa, but that is a really great phrase.

Re: Energy

Posted: 22 Apr 2009 21:01
by SandRider
having just come out of 12 hours in the West Texas sun -
98 degrees today, and this was a pleasant day,
watching grown linemen & apprentices bitch like jilted
cheerleaders at the prom, dealing with the bullshit
company's outdated & broken heavy equipment,
having a helicopter pilot from somewheres north
of the Red River tell me he couldn't fly the drag lines
in this "wind" (what wind ? 20-30 mph with an
occasional 50mph gust ... hell, that's a gentle breeze,
son. takes your mind off the "heat") and only pulling
a mile of transmission cables for all that, I say :

fuck electricity

Re: Energy

Posted: 22 Apr 2009 22:42
by SandChigger
SwordMaster wrote:I really hate Edison because of how he treated Telsa

Edison was the consummate piece of shit as a human being, it seems.

Anyway, the Japanese units that use natural gas or kerosene are great. The old one at the house I rent went out last August and had to be replaced (it was the original one, put in when the house was built about 15 years ago); it always delivered a constant temperature. The new one they put in kinda cycles (the water temporarily gets hotter than the base setting), but it came with a sexy new "21st century WOW" control panel in both the bath and the kitchen. (The same heater delivers the hot water to the laundry area and kitchen.) The old one just had a temperature dial in the bath.

I'm happy. :)

Re: Energy

Posted: 22 Apr 2009 23:18
by Spicelon
SwordMaster wrote:Im always suprised solar power is still fairly untapped, if we put half the money of the iraq war into RnD for solar, we would all pay nothing for energy


Solar. for all its benefits, still requires a rather hefty up-front investment.

Re: Energy

Posted: 23 Apr 2009 00:29
by Omphalos
Im going to replace the main one in my house shortly. I still have a bit of life left in the tank heater. With just the four of us I think we can get by without a second one for the sink, and there are some great SMUD rebates here too.

Re: Energy

Posted: 23 Apr 2009 09:54
by Freakzilla
SandRider wrote:having just come out of 12 hours in the West Texas sun -
98 degrees today, and this was a pleasant day,
watching grown linemen & apprentices bitch like jilted
cheerleaders at the prom, dealing with the bullshit
company's outdated & broken heavy equipment,
having a helicopter pilot from somewheres north
of the Red River tell me he couldn't fly the drag lines
in this "wind" (what wind ? 20-30 mph with an
occasional 50mph gust ... hell, that's a gentle breeze,
son. takes your mind off the "heat") and only pulling
a mile of transmission cables for all that, I say :

fuck electricity


Fuck gas, get back to work!

:D

Re: Energy

Posted: 23 Apr 2009 09:57
by Freakzilla
I read that there is some kind of rebate for solar panels but I haven't looked into the details.

My first goal is to eliminate the gas, but I might keep it for a fireplace starter, but that's not a practical necessity.

Once I go all electric I will focus on cutting that down. If the start up for solar is not too great or if the Feds will rebate most of it, I'll probably do that.

Re: Energy

Posted: 23 Apr 2009 10:23
by Eyes High
About the only good thing that I will admit to for Gas is that when the power goes down due to storms, it can be nice to be able to heat your home and do some cooking. But that's all I can think of right now.

Re: Energy

Posted: 23 Apr 2009 12:19
by Freakzilla
Eyes High wrote:About the only good thing that I will admit to for Gas is that when the power goes down due to storms, it can be nice to be able to heat your home and do some cooking. But that's all I can think of right now.


One day I'll buy a propane emergency generator. :wink:

If it comes down to it I can always burn wood in the fireplace.

Re: Energy

Posted: 23 Apr 2009 18:48
by SandRider
Freak wrote:If the start up for solar is not too great or if the Feds will rebate most of it ....


you dirty little socialist.
do you want a Union Electrician to come install it for you, too ?



and :

fuck Dilliard Smith Line Construction Company of Chatanooga, Tennesse

Re: Energy

Posted: 23 Apr 2009 18:53
by Freakzilla
SandRider wrote:
Freak wrote:If the start up for solar is not too great or if the Feds will rebate most of it ....


you dirty little socialist.
do you want a Union Electrician to come install it for you, too ?


I don't think the federal government encouraging people to use less energy is socialist.

I can handle installation myself, I don't even plan to get a permit.

Re: Energy

Posted: 24 Apr 2009 01:39
by A Thing of Eternity
Freakzilla wrote:
SandRider wrote:
Freak wrote:If the start up for solar is not too great or if the Feds will rebate most of it ....


you dirty little socialist.
do you want a Union Electrician to come install it for you, too ?


I don't think the federal government encouraging people to use less energy is socialist.

I can handle installation myself, I don't even plan to get a permit.


:D Any time the government "encourages" people to spend their money in any specific way it's socialism. That's what they call centrally planned economy (poorly planned usually, but planned none the less!). :wink: