Peak Oil

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SandRider
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Re: Peak Oil

Postby SandRider » 21 Apr 2011 21:11

Robspierre wrote:Diesel just jumped from $3.99 9/10 to $4.19 9/10 today.

Rob


did here, too - I'm just a few miles to east of you ...

I'll revise that summer demand price threshold to $4.75 or $5 or something;
anyway, y'all get the principle of the argument - I'm waiting for the demand price
to just not go back down ... become the new base-price ...

but real economics are hard to discuss or gauge these days, with Central Banks
arbitrarily determining the value of currency ... I've always had a hard getting my
mind wrapped around some of those concepts ... I've always sorta acted like
inflation was the Jedi Mind Fuck it is - stuff's not anymore expensive that it ever
was, your paper money is cheaper ... the "squeeze" on the Little Folks happens
when the Robber Barons know and acknowledge this - except when it comes to
wages ... then, all of a sudden, the capital-dollar and the labor wage-dollar are
two separate things ... no, no raises this year; our raw material cost has increased...

no shit, Mr. Rearden ...


also, since my "retirement", I do occasionally have to pay attention to fuel price,
and sometimes I still don't pay attention to fluctuation; I've been used to sticking
the nozzle in and filling up and swiping the Gas Card ... one of the perks of being an
organized labor boss working for a big-ass corporate giant with tons of money and
bad accounting practices ... the last several years, I was in charge of the operating
costs of a shitload of heavy equipment, and dealt out Company Gas Cards like Wyatt
Earp at the faro table; and goddamn right, the mexicans on the ranch got some ...
as long as the monthly fuel bill didn't break 100K, everything was fine, so I very
rarely actually looked over the paperwork the little girls would bring me to sign ...

now, tho .... those "Company Gas Cards" are connected to the ranch's accounts at
the Co-op ... goddamn capitalist bullshit ...
................ I exist only to amuse myself ................
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Robspierre
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Re: Peak Oil

Postby Robspierre » 21 Apr 2011 21:37

What pisses me off, is that I can go 60 miles to the west, Las Cruces, and gas is 20 cents a gallon cheaper, Las Cruces and Alamogordo are roughly the same distance from the refineries.

Rob

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SandRider
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Re: Peak Oil

Postby SandRider » 22 Apr 2011 02:14

I got four pumpjacks in my back yard - why the fuck am I paying anything for gas ?
................ I exist only to amuse myself ................
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I personally feel that this message board, Jacurutu, is full of hateful folks who don't know
how to fully interact with people.
~ "Spice Grandson" (Bryon Merrit) 08 June 2008

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Serkanner
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Re: Peak Oil

Postby Serkanner » 22 Apr 2011 03:32

E. LeGuille wrote:The problem versus many countries, is that America is built entirely on the corporate/consumer model. Gas goes up, price for consumption goes up. Since America is built on the Corporate model, where local is affected by national chains, then it is affected by the highest price average, not by local state price.

In other parts of the world, where local shops are still prominent -- like in Australia -- many of the food prices, etc, stay the same due to the average price of transportation cost. When a local chain buys from a local supplier, then the overall cost to transport, is lower. In companies like McD's, they have to pay to transport according to national average. Their supplier comes from 1 place: Golden Arches Foods, Inc. If the cost to transport from this location goes up, so does the food cost of McD's. Thus why they are raising prices.


This has nothing to do with the ridiculous prices of petrol in Holland. These prices contain about 50% tax ...
"... the mystery of life isn't a problem to solve but a reality to experience."

“There is no escape—we pay for the violence of our ancestors.”

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and wrote a Dune Novel."

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Freakzilla
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Re: Peak Oil

Postby Freakzilla » 23 Apr 2011 08:04

My commute has a much bigger impact on me than the prices at McDonalds.

However, I'm looking to move close to work. :?
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E. LeGuille
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Re: Peak Oil

Postby E. LeGuille » 23 Apr 2011 08:36

Serkanner wrote:
E. LeGuille wrote:The problem versus many countries, is that America is built entirely on the corporate/consumer model. Gas goes up, price for consumption goes up. Since America is built on the Corporate model, where local is affected by national chains, then it is affected by the highest price average, not by local state price.

In other parts of the world, where local shops are still prominent -- like in Australia -- many of the food prices, etc, stay the same due to the average price of transportation cost. When a local chain buys from a local supplier, then the overall cost to transport, is lower. In companies like McD's, they have to pay to transport according to national average. Their supplier comes from 1 place: Golden Arches Foods, Inc. If the cost to transport from this location goes up, so does the food cost of McD's. Thus why they are raising prices.


This has nothing to do with the ridiculous prices of petrol in Holland. These prices contain about 50% tax ...


It does, actually. The demand overall, in comparison to the U.S. infrastructure, is lower. MUCH lower. The tax is your government's excise tax at work due to the NEED for an infrastructure. Almost 70% of your pump price is DUE to the taxes, not 50%. The reason that this in fact does affect you, is simple.

Your country wants more roads, and better infrastructure to compete and stay healthy in the world economy. Holland is in need of better roads, and infrastructure to be able to compete, or stay competent to this. However, they were behind, far behind, when it came to infrastructure for competent business solutions, such as national logistics. In 1995, the 19% VAT tax, as well as the extra excise tax, was enacted to help jump start the roads and highway system that they have needed for so long. Pump prices are high, but your NEED for gas is much LOWER than what it is in comparison to the US, whose entire infrastructure is built on national logistics, and interstate commerce.

Holland is much more localized when it comes to its distribution of goods. The other kicker about this, is that your DEMAND is low, and the supply is low. When this happens, the price jumps at the barrel cost, because refineries are in dire situation for demand. So prices go up, and ease the demand.

These are reasons the price is higher. It has everything to do with your infrastructural model.
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Re: Peak Oil

Postby SandRider » 23 Apr 2011 13:20

Freak, if I recall correctly, didn't your family move to your mother's big house,
or something similar ? this could be your ticket to freedom - wife & kids stay
at the house, kids won't change schools or anything (seems like it was in a decent
suburban neighborhood ? yard and such ?) --- you dummy-up a spread sheet showing
your fuel cost for commuting (throw in 'Peak Oil Scenarios', too, bumping the price up
50 to 200%) versus keeping a one-room unfurnished apartment near the office - you
can sleep on a cot and "come home" on the weekends ...

if you get the fat girl from accounting to foot the bill for the apartment, as a "love-nest",
you can pocket the budgeted rent-money (you are banging fat girl from accounting, right ?)

I'm seeing potential here for win-win-win ...
................ I exist only to amuse myself ................
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I personally feel that this message board, Jacurutu, is full of hateful folks who don't know
how to fully interact with people.
~ "Spice Grandson" (Bryon Merrit) 08 June 2008

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Serkanner
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Re: Peak Oil

Postby Serkanner » 24 Apr 2011 05:23

E. LeGuille wrote:Holland is much more localized when it comes to its distribution of goods.


European Union.
"... the mystery of life isn't a problem to solve but a reality to experience."

“There is no escape—we pay for the violence of our ancestors.”

Sandrider: "Keith went to Bobo's for a weekend of drinking, watched some DVDs,
and wrote a Dune Novel."

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E. LeGuille
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Re: Peak Oil

Postby E. LeGuille » 24 Apr 2011 09:32

Serkanner wrote:
E. LeGuille wrote:Holland is much more localized when it comes to its distribution of goods.


European Union.


Due to a... Lack of Economic & Logistical Infrastructure.
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Re: Peak Oil

Postby Serkanner » 24 Apr 2011 11:52

E. LeGuille wrote:
Serkanner wrote:
E. LeGuille wrote:Holland is much more localized when it comes to its distribution of goods.


European Union.


Due to a... Lack of Economic & Logistical Infrastructure.


Nonsense.
"... the mystery of life isn't a problem to solve but a reality to experience."

“There is no escape—we pay for the violence of our ancestors.”

Sandrider: "Keith went to Bobo's for a weekend of drinking, watched some DVDs,
and wrote a Dune Novel."

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E. LeGuille
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Re: Peak Oil

Postby E. LeGuille » 24 Apr 2011 12:59

Serkanner wrote:
E. LeGuille wrote:
Serkanner wrote:
E. LeGuille wrote:Holland is much more localized when it comes to its distribution of goods.


European Union.


Due to a... Lack of Economic & Logistical Infrastructure.


Nonsense.


The EU is a backer for a country's economic power in the world market. It's the same for the American/Canadian/Mexican NAFTA. Though in the case of the EU, it serves more purpose than just an Economical Alliance. The EU provides the push to trade internationally and inter-continentally with better ebb and flow of the market standards. How is that Nonsense?

This affects your gas prices by a great deal.

If Gas is 10.00 in Holland, then before taxes it is 3.00. Which is about the same as it is in the U.S. before taxes. Your government wants more money to make better roads, better transportation systems for trade and economic infrastructure, as stated by the 1995 tax implementation.

The cost of gas globally rises and lowers due to speculators and 5-year futures' indexes. The assume a 5-year window when it comes to modern events, and try to close the profit margin by speculating the impact of oil barrel prices by world events.
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Re: Peak Oil

Postby Serkanner » 24 Apr 2011 14:01

Have it your way than. You're oversimplifying economics into the extreme and I have no patience to debate it.
"... the mystery of life isn't a problem to solve but a reality to experience."

“There is no escape—we pay for the violence of our ancestors.”

Sandrider: "Keith went to Bobo's for a weekend of drinking, watched some DVDs,
and wrote a Dune Novel."

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E. LeGuille
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Re: Peak Oil

Postby E. LeGuille » 24 Apr 2011 18:25

Serkanner wrote:Have it your way than. You're oversimplifying economics into the extreme and I have no patience to debate it.


I am not oversimplifying economics. I am stating what I know. If I am wrong, then do more than just say I am. Tell me why. If I am wrong, I'd like to know why.

What you're doing is, as you would say, "Nonsense."
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Re: Peak Oil

Postby D Pope » 24 Apr 2011 21:16

E. LeGuille wrote:This affects your gas prices by a great deal.

I disagree.
The thing affecting gas prices the most is plain old greed.
There are only a few oil companies in the world and the way they work together, there may as well be a monopoly. The best example illustrating my point happened a few years ago when NPR reported that because of a storm at sea, a delayed tanker was going to cause a temporary price spike. Total bullshit. If oil prices were based on a supply and demand system/capitolistic free enterprise, you would have niether the magical dime increase at all stations in a given city nor the record profits all petrol companies have had.
I can't speak to the taxes on fuel in other countries, except to say that, like here, there's never enough.

On the subject of taxes, in the USA the tax code ensures that it's not profitable for a company to show a profit. Thus, corporations divie up their business into divisions and departments, each acting as it's own entity, in an effort to 'wash' their profits out of existence. This tidbit should throw new light on just how massive 'record breaking profits' are- if a company is so profitable that it can't wash out it's own profits then the real amounts of income are exponentially higher than the general public realizes.
Leto II is gone for good, except for OM. The "pearl" was just that; a miniscule portion of what Leto was, and not a compressed version of the whole. The pearl that the worms have do not make them Leto, or in any way similar to him.
-Omphalos

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Re: Peak Oil

Postby E. LeGuille » 25 Apr 2011 17:36

D Pope wrote:
E. LeGuille wrote:This affects your gas prices by a great deal.

I disagree.
The thing affecting gas prices the most is plain old greed.
There are only a few oil companies in the world and the way they work together, there may as well be a monopoly. The best example illustrating my point happened a few years ago when NPR reported that because of a storm at sea, a delayed tanker was going to cause a temporary price spike. Total bullshit. If oil prices were based on a supply and demand system/capitolistic free enterprise, you would have niether the magical dime increase at all stations in a given city nor the record profits all petrol companies have had.
I can't speak to the taxes on fuel in other countries, except to say that, like here, there's never enough.

On the subject of taxes, in the USA the tax code ensures that it's not profitable for a company to show a profit. Thus, corporations divie up their business into divisions and departments, each acting as it's own entity, in an effort to 'wash' their profits out of existence. This tidbit should throw new light on just how massive 'record breaking profits' are- if a company is so profitable that it can't wash out it's own profits then the real amounts of income are exponentially higher than the general public realizes.


The argument of greed in business is just silly, and about as abusive towards the summarizing of some partisan poignant bias.

Without infrastructure, the local market's currency devalues, meaning the cost goes up. Governments, to help recover their infrastructure lay taxes to make sure the infrastructure comes to a point of stability.

In the US, speculators on oil and on the dollar work very closely at the IMF. These people speculate the value of the dollar at ForEx trading, as well as the dollar against the barrel. As the dollar's value decreases, the barrel cost increases. The 5-year futures forecast for oil then turns the price up because the dollar's value decreases at the ForEx value. The same goes for any currency. If the currency devalues due to a lack of infrastructure, debt defaultment, or economic instability -- the value is speculated and set at the IMF. If you want to complain about who controls what, blame the IMF and it's international speculators.
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Re: Peak Oil

Postby D Pope » 25 Apr 2011 18:08

Got it, thanks.
Leto II is gone for good, except for OM. The "pearl" was just that; a miniscule portion of what Leto was, and not a compressed version of the whole. The pearl that the worms have do not make them Leto, or in any way similar to him.
-Omphalos

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Re: Peak Oil

Postby Freakzilla » 25 Apr 2011 21:46

I'm with Illegal on this one, I paid $4.18 for premium today.

I blame Mc Donalds.
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Re: Peak Oil

Postby E. LeGuille » 26 Apr 2011 08:18

Freakzilla wrote:I'm with Illegal on this one, I paid $4.18 for premium today.

I blame Mc Donalds.


Because of the mass consumption, or the societal flux towards consumerism from productive capitalism?
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Re: Peak Oil

Postby Omphalos » 26 Apr 2011 11:55

E. LeGuille wrote:
Freakzilla wrote:I'm with Illegal on this one, I paid $4.18 for premium today.

I blame Mc Donalds.


Because of the mass consumption, or the societal flux towards consumerism from productive capitalism?


No. Because he was eating a Big Mac while he typed that, and it just kinda made sense. :P

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Re: Peak Oil

Postby Freakzilla » 26 Apr 2011 12:06

Quarter pounder with cheese. :wink:

I say fuck the salt marsh mouse, drill and mine all our natural resources and extablish a date by which we need to develope alternatives.

Hopefully before it runs out.

Then we tell the Arabs to fuck off and raise the price of our grain.
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Re: Peak Oil

Postby Serkanner » 26 Apr 2011 13:28

Freakzilla wrote:Quarter pounder with cheese. :wink:


Royale with cheese
"... the mystery of life isn't a problem to solve but a reality to experience."

“There is no escape—we pay for the violence of our ancestors.”

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and wrote a Dune Novel."

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Re: Peak Oil

Postby Omphalos » 26 Apr 2011 15:02

Serkanner wrote:
Freakzilla wrote:Quarter pounder with cheese. :wink:


Royale with cheese


Royale avec fromage.

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Re: Peak Oil

Postby Freakzilla » 26 Apr 2011 15:10

Omphalos wrote:
Serkanner wrote:
Freakzilla wrote:Quarter pounder with cheese. :wink:


Royale with cheese


Royale avec fromage.


They speak English in What?
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E. LeGuille
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Re: Peak Oil

Postby E. LeGuille » 26 Apr 2011 20:57

Freakzilla wrote:Quarter pounder with cheese. :wink:

I say fuck the salt marsh mouse, drill and mine all our natural resources and extablish a date by which we need to develope alternatives.

Hopefully before it runs out.

Then we tell the Arabs to fuck off and raise the price of our grain.


Drilling is nice, but when it comes down to it, it's the refineries that matter. Without refineries, it won't change. Oil has to be processed. There's 3 layers in oil, and gas is only one of them, and has to be cleaned and refined.
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Re: Peak Oil

Postby merkin muffley » 26 Apr 2011 22:53

ENGLISH, mothafucka, DO YOU SPEAK IT?
"I must admit, you have an astonishingly good idea there, Doctor...."


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