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    Indiana: The Consti-what? Magna Who?

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    Indiana: The Consti-what? Magna Who?

    Postby E. LeGuille » 17 May 2011 15:34

    Maybe Oomph can shed some light on the reason they'd have come to this conclusion...

    Original Article

    On June 10, 1215 AD, after prolonged rebellion and frustrating negotiation, a group of England’s most influential barons entered London to force the disastrous King John Softsword into accepting a revolutionary charter of individual freedoms.

    Five days later in the Runnymede meadow of Surrey County, John affixed his royal seal onto what became known as the Magna Carta. It still exists on the books today in England and Wales.

    This document was one of the more important antecedents to the US Constitution; its proclamations ended the absolutism of England’s monarchy and spelled out very clear rights and freedoms, including, among others, the right of a man to enjoy his private property without trespass from government officials.

    Over 550 years later, the framers of the Constitution codified this right in the 4th Amendment to be secure in one’s private property. Last week, the Indiana Supreme Court effectively rejected both documents in two separate cases.

    In the first case of Lacey v. State of Indiana, the Court ruled that police officers serving a warrant on a private home may simply walk right in without knocking.

    The second case of Barnes v. State of Indiana is far more startling. The case deals with one Richard Barnes, a regular Joe citizen of Indiana, who was in the midst of marital problems with his wife one evening in 2007. The couple was arguing when police arrived to the scene and attempted to enter the home.

    Barnes made it very clear to the officers that they were not to enter his home. The officers did not have a warrant, and they did not have probably cause to believe that anything illegal was happening. But they entered regardless.

    Barnes tried to block the door, and as the police officers muscled their way past him, he shoved one of them against the wall in defense of his property. Barnes was choked and tasered in his own home, subsequently hospitalized, then charged with misdemeanor battery on a police officer.

    The case went to court, and the Barnes defense team cited a private citizen’s right to resist unlawful entry into one’s home. They lost. The case was appealed, all the way up to the Indiana Supreme Court. Here’s where it gets interesting.

    The Court agreed that the police officers entered the Barnes home illegally. The Court further agreed that one’s right to resist illegal entry has existed since the Magna Carta. The Court further agreed that the US Supreme Court has reaffirmed this right to resist unlawful entry in numerous court cases.

    Seems pretty cut and dry, no?

    [--snip--]


    So there is of course a lot of op-ed in this piece post snip. I can understand the basis of arguing that there was probable cause under a situation of possible domestic disturbance if he was yelling. I mean, the police did tell him they were going to enter, and he refused. If there was an obvious sign of a fight they can intercede -- right?
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    Re: Indiana: The Consti-what? Magna Who?

    Postby Freakzilla » 17 May 2011 16:09

    Softsword? Seriously? :snooty:
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    Re: Indiana: The Consti-what? Magna Who?

    Postby Omphalos » 17 May 2011 17:17

    Doesn't look like that is what the case is about. The first paragraph says that the police were serving a warrant and while doing so, heard a fight going on. The gist of the fight is over the police failing to knock first. The issue is not the scope of the amendment's protections. It's whether or not a judicially recognized exception (exigent circumstances) applies or not. This opinion seems to make perfect sense (though I did not read it all; too busy right now).

    http://www.in.gov/judiciary/opinions/pdf/05101101bd.pdf
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    Re: Indiana: The Consti-what? Magna Who?

    Postby E. LeGuille » 17 May 2011 19:24

    I was hoping to see this specifically cover the Barnes v. State of Indiana case. This actually covers the prior case of Lacey v. State of Indiana.

    In the situation of Barnes, there was no warrant served. The warrant never happened. In the case of Barnes, the police entered the home in the midst of a domestic dispute after being told not to enter after the first attempt.

    It's not a question of knock first. It's a question of why the home was entered without a warrant, and after several requests to not enter.
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    Re: Indiana: The Consti-what? Magna Who?

    Postby SandRider » 18 May 2011 03:29

    Freakzilla wrote:Softsword? Seriously? :snooty:

    more commonly referred to as John Lackland - youngest son of Henry II & Eleanor;
    the evil "Prince John" in the Robin Hood stories, while Richard the Lionheart was on
    Crusade; succeeded to the throne when Richard got hisself kilt on Crusade ...

    Omph, there are two cases here -
    the first upholding the no-knock warrant thing; not any kind of New News;
    the second is undoubtedly horribly mis-represented on the underground freedom-fighter's blahg ...

    .... who was in the midst of marital problems with his wife one evening in 2007. The couple was {sic} arguing when police arrived to the scene and attempted to enter the home .....The officers did not have a warrant, and they did not have probably {sic} cause to believe that anything illegal was happening.


    Defender of Liberty here means "probable cause" (I assUme), but of course they had probable cause, and not just because
    they be the PoLeese and do what the fuck they want, that's a different issue; the cops "arrived at the scene" because the
    neighbors called in the screaming fight next door .... cops show up on a "routine domestic disturbance" ... Awright, what's
    going on here, folks
    .... irate (maybe drunk/drugged up) husband gets mouthy with Barney Fife & Deputy Dawg (first mistake),
    says they can't come into his home (second mistake), resists Armed Law Enforcement and actually attempts to return force
    (third and mo' stupid mistake than the first two) ... got tased, subdued, cuffed, charged ....

    I don't even wanna click on the "original article" link to see what else this nutbag has in his attic ...

    now ... @the OP - it's 2:30am, I am irate, drunk, and drugged up, so I ain't gonna go into my diatribe
    about you people that keep whining about the "Constitution" .... it's all over this forum, search around ...
    the short story is: they have the Guns and the Right to Use Them; it has always been this way
    (the reason Little Johnny Boy had to sign the paper was because he had lost control of the generals - it was sign
    or hang); The Law is what They say It Is; Keep Your Fucking Down & don't talk to the police, AT ALL (see my latest
    post in "feelin' protesty", and watch the whole video); and -- "Fighting the System" gets your taxes audited,
    tased & cuffed, beaten in the Streets of Chicago with batons by Mayor Daly's Police Force live on National TeeVee,
    disappeared and/or dead ....


    peace out.
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