Think of the children!

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Think of the children!

Postby DuneFishUK » 27 Jun 2011 15:10

Clicked a related story to Freak's Random Crap link and found this:

http://www.wsbtv.com/nationalnews/28368438/detail.html wrote:WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The Supreme Court has struck down a California law that would have banned selling "violent" video games to children, a case balancing free speech rights with consumer protection.

The 7-2 ruling Monday is a victory for video game makers and sellers, who said the ban -- which had yet to go into effect -- would extend too far. They say the existing nationwide, industry-imposed, voluntary rating system is an adequate screen for parents to judge the appropriateness of computer game content.

The state says it has a legal obligation to protect children from graphic interactive images when the industry has failed to do so.

"As a means of assisting concerned parents it (the law) is seriously overinclusive because it abridges the First Amendment rights of young people whose parents (and aunts and uncles) think violent video games are a harmless pastime," wrote Justice Antonin Scalia for the majority.

In dissent, Justice Stephen Breyer framed the law's intent differently.

"The First Amendment does not disable government from helping parents make such a choice here -- a choice not to have their children buy extremely violent, interactive games," he wrote.

At issue is how far constitutional protections of free speech and expression, as well as due process, can be applied to youngsters. Critics of the content-based restrictions say the government would in effect be engaged in the censorship business, using "community standards" to evaluate artistic and commercial content.

A federal appeals court in San Francisco last year tossed out the law before it took effect, after then-Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger signed it in 2005. He had applauded the high court's decision to intervene. "We have a responsibility to our kids and our communities to protect against the effects of games that depict ultraviolent actions, just as we already do with movies," the governor said. The onetime actor made his name playing characters engaged in similarly violent acts in such movies as "Terminator."

The legislation was designed to strengthen the current industry-controlled rating system, and would have placed an outright ban on the sale or rental to those under 18 of games deemed excessively "violent." As defined by California, such interactive games are those in which the player is given the choice of "killing, maiming, dismembering or sexually assaulting an image of a human being" in offensive ways. It also defined such games as those that would "appeal to a deviant or morbid interest of children and are patently offensive to prevailing community standards."

Retailers would have faced up to $1,000 fine for violations. The law would also have required game makers and retailers to place an "18" label prominently on excessively violent games.

In an unusual coalition, Scalia's majority opinion had the support of Justices Anthony Kennedy, Ruth Bader Ginsburg, and Sonia Sotomayor.

Scalia noted the court had never permitted government regulation of minors' "access to any forms of entertainment except on obscenity grounds."

He said the California law was one of many similar ones over the years, which he called "failed attempts." He cited movies, comic books, television, music lyrics, even Grimm's fairy tales and "Snow White," for their violent content.

But Justices Samuel Alito and Chief Justice John Roberts, while agreeing California went too far, nevertheless suggested a more narrowly tailored law might meet free-speech scrutiny.

"We should make every effort to understand the new technology" presented in these sophisticated video games, said Alito.

Along with Breyer, Justice Clarence Thomas also dissented, saying the law's requirement of having parents purchase the games for their underage children was reasonable. "The freedom of speech as originally understood, does not include a right to speak to minors, without going through the minors' parents or guardians," he said.

The gaming industry sued in federal court and won an injunction halting enforcement of the law until the courts sorted out the constitutional questions. The game "Postal 2" was specifically cited by the state as potentially subject to the proposed statutory ban. The manufacturer, Running With Scissors, Inc., based in Tucson, Arizona, rates it as "M" for a mature audience only, with "blood and gore," "intense violence" and "sexual themes" as part of its content.

Other games listed by parent groups as being of concern are "Full Spectrum Warrior" and "Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2," where players at one level can view terrorists slaughtering civilians at an airport.

The video game industry, as part of its appeal, sent several PlayStation video games to the justices to view, including "Medal of Honor" and "Resident Evil 4."

The game industry racks up $10.5 billion in yearly sales. The industry claims more than two-thirds of households have at least one member who plays video games.

The motion picture industry has its own self-monitoring ratings system, imposed decades ago after complaints that some films were too explicit for the general audience in what was seen and heard. The gaming industry says its ratings system roughly follows the same self-imposed guidelines, and ratings are clearly labeled on the packaging.

Similar complaints have been raised over the decades over children's exposure to pulp novels and comic books, in addition to pornography.

Efforts in at least eight other states to restrict gaming content have been rejected by various courts. Video game makers have the support of various free-speech, entertainment, and media organizations. Nine states also agree, noting California's law has good intentions but would compel law enforcement to become "culture critics" and "distract from the task of policing actual violence."

But 11 other states back California, saying they have enjoyed a traditional regulatory power over commerce aimed at protecting children, including such goods as alcohol and cigarettes.

The Supreme Court in recent years has thwarted repeated congressional attempts to protect children from internet pornography, saying legislation went too far in limiting adult access to lawful, but explicit, sexual content on the Web.

And the justices this spring threw out a federal law limiting the sale of graphic videos of animal cruelty.

The case is Brown v. Entertainment Merchants Assn. (08-1448).


Not sure how I feel about this.

Over here games are controlled by the same system as movies - the BBFC gives them an age classification and retailers can be fined for selling 18 rated games to under-age kids or even selling them to parents who are blatantly just buying them for the little darlings.

I'm a fan of violent video games, I know I can tell the difference between pixels and reality and also there are plenty of studies that suggest that there is no connection between playing games and murdering IRL. My standard response to someone who says "Think what these games are doing to our children!" is - they're rated 18 for a reason. To me it makes sense that overtly violent content should not be marketed at children. Does preventing them from buying it really violate their freedom of speech?

And are there any constitutionally acceptable rules we can put in place to prevent screaming snot-nosed American little shits ruining perfectly good online games?
:)

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Re: Think of the children!

Postby Freakzilla » 27 Jun 2011 15:38

If parents would teach their children the difference between reality and fantasy this wouldn't be an issue.
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Re: Think of the children!

Postby Ampoliros » 27 Jun 2011 16:55

They should have mentioned that M rated games also have sex and foul language, which we all know are ten times worse than violence.
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Re: Think of the children!

Postby A Thing of Eternity » 27 Jun 2011 19:08

I know eh? I've always gotten a kick out of how it seems to be perfectly fine for kids to watch violence (up to a point anyways) but nudity? Hell no! Naked people is much much worse than violence, of course... :roll:
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Re: Think of the children!

Postby Nekhrun » 27 Jun 2011 19:50

What's to stop an adult bookshop now from selling porn to minors?

I like how everyone's ready to concede the point that kids learn from watching educational programing, but if you say that they learn from violent games and television, oh hell no.

Just one in a number of decisions in the last week where the Supreme Court rules in favor of the corporate masters and to hell with the people.

If my house hadn't taken a $100,000 plunge I'd be on the next plane out of this place.

For now I'll just continue living in a country were we allow a quarter of our children to go to bed hungry.
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Re: Think of the children!

Postby SadisticCynic » 27 Jun 2011 20:22

And are there any constitutionally acceptable rules we can put in place to prevent screaming snot-nosed American little shits ruining perfectly good online games?


I just toggle the mute function. :) It's truly remarkable how many high-pitched voices you get on Call of Duty or Gears of War online games.
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Re: Think of the children!

Postby Ampoliros » 27 Jun 2011 21:01

I treat them like adults, and when I get a 12 yr old named 'Cuntkicker' trying to give me shit I at least attempt to school them in being human before I kick them from group or just flat out /ignore them.
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Re: Think of the children!

Postby Freakzilla » 12 Sep 2011 06:55

It's Official: SpongeBob Squarepants Is Making Our Children Stupid

WATCHING FAST-PACED CARTOONS like SpongeBob SquarePants leaves young children significantly less able to perform challenging tasks than those who watch more sedate TV, a new American study has found.
The American Academy of Paediatrics compared sixty 4-year-old children, split into three groups for nine minutes: one watching SpongeBob SquarePants, the second watching the Canadian animated show Caillou, and the third given paper, crayons and markers.
Comparing the three groups afterwards, academics found that those who had spent the previous nine minutes watching the goings-on at Bikini Bottom were immediately shown to be “significantly impared in executive function”.
Among the tasks that SpongeBob watchers performed poorly at were requests to play games with an organised set of rules, and an activity in which children were given a snack, but asked not to consume it for a few minutes.
Bloomberg quoted the study’s lead author, Angeline Lillard from the University of Virginia, as saying:
We don’t know how long this effect lasts… it may be that children recover quickly. Certainly, immediately after, there was a strong impact particularly on the most challenging tasks.
The Daily Telegraph adds:
Parents should know that children who have just watched SpongeBob SquarePants, or shows like it, might become compromised in their ability to learn and behave with self-control.
Nickelodeon has sought to discredit the study, saying that SpongeBob is aimed at children aged between 6 and 11 – and not at the 4-year-olds with whom the study was conducted.
Reuters also quoted a Nickelodeon statement arguing that the methodology for the study was circumspect.
“Having 60 non-diverse kids, who are not part of the show’s targeted demo, watch nine minutes of programming is questionable methodology,” the statement said, “and could not possibly provide the basis for any valid findings that parents could trust.”
The study is published in the academy’s Paediatrics journal today. SpongeBob has previously been accused of being part of a pro-homosexual agenda.


Read more: http://thedailyedge.thejournal.ie/its-o ... z1XjbqtqTl
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Re: Think of the children!

Postby Lundse » 12 Sep 2011 07:45

Freakzilla wrote:Comparing the three groups afterwards, academics found that those who had spent the previous nine minutes watching the goings-on at Bikini Bottom were immediately shown to be “significantly impared in executive function”.


This is an absolutely insane way to do research, IMHO. The same methods have been used for all "video games make you violent"-studies (easy - pump their adrenaline with a good game, throw them into the soccer field and see if they act pumped). It has nothing to do with actual use - for that you need real, longitudinal studies. The only thing this proves, is that studying/problemsolving requires a bit a peace and quiet. Shocking...

/rant

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Re: Think of the children!

Postby SadisticCynic » 12 Sep 2011 09:36

Lundse wrote:
Freakzilla wrote:Comparing the three groups afterwards, academics found that those who had spent the previous nine minutes watching the goings-on at Bikini Bottom were immediately shown to be “significantly impared in executive function”.


This is an absolutely insane way to do research, IMHO. The same methods have been used for all "video games make you violent"-studies (easy - pump their adrenaline with a good game, throw them into the soccer field and see if they act pumped). It has nothing to do with actual use - for that you need real, longitudinal studies. The only thing this proves, is that studying/problemsolving requires a bit a peace and quiet. Shocking...

/rant


THANK YOU! I was thinking similarly, but couldn't put it so well. :D
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Re: Think of the children!

Postby Freakzilla » 12 Sep 2011 09:42

Allthough the "study" IS stupid, I must admit, I've watched some of the crap my kids watch and it is even STUPIDER.

I'd rather they watched some good ol' fashoned ultra-violence like Buggs Bunny, Coyote and Road Runner or Tom & Jerry, just like I did growing up.
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Re: Think of the children!

Postby Apjak » 12 Sep 2011 10:57

Freakzilla wrote:If parents would teach their children the difference between reality and fantasy this wouldn't be an issue.


Working with school-age children, I'd say, on average, children can tell fantasy and reality apart better than their parents.

Nekhrun wrote:What's to stop an adult bookshop now from selling porn to minors?

umm...Image

Nekhrun wrote:I like how everyone's ready to concede the point that kids learn from watching educational programing, but if you say that they learn from violent games and television, oh hell no.

Just one in a number of decisions in the last week where the Supreme Court rules in favor of the corporate masters and to hell with the people.


My libertarian point will remain at this, The corporate masters are only masters if they convince you to give them your money. Usually, by creating a good or service that you want. However, if the government outlaws something like violent video games, they get to back up their rules with force. I'd rather have greedy corporations try and persuade "the people" than have any government, benevolent or otherwise, coerce "the people" in the name of all things NANNYING.
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Re: Think of the children!

Postby Freakzilla » 12 Sep 2011 11:06

I'd rather my kids watched porn than violence... if I had to make that choice.
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Re: Think of the children!

Postby JustSomeGuy » 12 Sep 2011 11:07

Freakzilla wrote:Allthough the "study" IS stupid, I must admit, I've watched some of the crap my kids watch and it is even STUPIDER.

Are you talking about Disney Channel programming?


Freakzilla wrote:I'd rather they watched some good ol' fashoned ultra-violence like Buggs Bunny, Coyote and Road Runner or Tom & Jerry, just like I did growing up.

Those shows were soo good. The old ones where Bugs Bunny was crazy.


Also, I think that if your kids turn out to be thieves and killers and prostitutes- well, maybe that's YOUR fault. That's a bold statement, and I'm sure there are things that I'm not taking into account, and blah, blah, blah.
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Re: Think of the children!

Postby Freakzilla » 12 Sep 2011 11:09

JustSomeGuy wrote:
Freakzilla wrote:Allthough the "study" IS stupid, I must admit, I've watched some of the crap my kids watch and it is even STUPIDER.

Are you talking about Disney Channel programming?


Disney, Cartoon Network, all of it.
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Re: Think of the children!

Postby Apjak » 12 Sep 2011 11:10

JustSomeGuy wrote:Also, I think that if your kids turn out to be thieves and killers and prostitutes- well, maybe that's YOUR fault. That's a bold statement, and I'm sure there are things that I'm not taking into account, and blah, blah, blah.


Your Genetic fault!
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Re: Think of the children!

Postby Dravition » 12 Sep 2011 11:36

The mainstream media is largely an institution of control. That's not to say that it doesn't enhance our lives in some ways. But the intelligentsia must always be weary of those things which stifle the mind and suppress creativity.
Leto smiled. "Duncan, have I not told you that when you think you know something, that is a most perfect barrier against learning?"

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Re: Think of the children!

Postby Apjak » 12 Sep 2011 15:35

weary or wary?
I don't think the author should make the reader do that much work - Kevin J. Anderson
We think we've updated 'Dune' for a modern readership without dumbing it down.- Brian Herbert
There’s an unwritten compact between you and the reader. If someone enters a bookstore and sets down hard earned money(energy) for your book, you owe that person some entertainment and as much more as you can give. - Frank Herbert

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Re: Think of the children!

Postby Dravition » 12 Sep 2011 18:36

Apjak wrote:weary or wary?

Whoops. I meant 'wary'. Thanks.
Leto smiled. "Duncan, have I not told you that when you think you know something, that is a most perfect barrier against learning?"

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Re: Think of the children!

Postby Nekhrun » 12 Sep 2011 19:00

Apjak wrote:
Nekhrun wrote:What's to stop an adult bookshop now from selling porn to minors?

umm...Image

please :roll:
Apjak wrote:
Nekhrun wrote:I like how everyone's ready to concede the point that kids learn from watching educational programing, but if you say that they learn from violent games and television, oh hell no.

Just one in a number of decisions in the last week where the Supreme Court rules in favor of the corporate masters and to hell with the people.


My libertarian point will remain at this, The corporate masters are only masters if they convince you to give them your money. Usually, by creating a good or service that you want. However, if the government outlaws something like violent video games, they get to back up their rules with force. I'd rather have greedy corporations try and persuade "the people" than have any government, benevolent or otherwise, coerce "the people" in the name of all things NANNYING.

Sounds great, except for the fact that we don't have an educated or informed populace who can take the time to look into their options (assuming there are any).
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Re: Think of the children!

Postby JustSomeGuy » 12 Sep 2011 19:15

They'll show women who don't wear tops every now and then in National Geographic!
I think minors can get off on anything, though. I remember my mom used to get this catalog, and in the clothing section there would be women in nothing but their bras and panties! Aw, man! Whoa. :drool:
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Re: Think of the children!

Postby Dravition » 12 Sep 2011 21:57

JustSomeGuy wrote:I remember my mom used to get this catalog, and in the clothing section there would be women in nothing but their bras and panties! Aw, man! Whoa. :drool:


:lol: I remember doing that..
Leto smiled. "Duncan, have I not told you that when you think you know something, that is a most perfect barrier against learning?"


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