Duncan and prescient vision

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loremaster
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Duncan and prescient vision

Postby loremaster » 23 Feb 2008 10:04

I've been thinking.... if some of duncans cells DID contain siona genes, and some not, what WOULD that look like to any hypothetical searching prescient who found him? Would you see through the siona cells or not? I just get the image of a sort of prescience-zombie where you cant see half the skin, so you see through to the layer underneath. Or maybe you see his hand, but not the arm that attaches it to his torso? Id love for a prescient just to see a walking digestive tract and some random muscles, all animated by non-siona white blood cells pumping around invisible veins.

Sorry, its complete bollocks, but i had to share it with you.
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Postby Omphalos » 23 Feb 2008 12:23

Yep. This is a bullshit idea. :wink:

The Siona genes in an individual would do the trick for the whole individual, in place and time (and entire body).

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Postby Crysknife » 23 Feb 2008 15:36

But Duncan DIDN'T have any of Siona's cells, at any time. So why even think about it?

Maybe Duncan could kill someone with Siona genes and then rub the blood all over his body as a kind of shield. Now THAT would be cool.
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Postby Tyrant » 23 Feb 2008 15:55

Crysknife wrote:But Duncan DIDN'T have any of Siona's cells, at any time. So why even think about it?

Maybe Duncan could kill someone with Siona genes and then rub the blood all over his body as a kind of shield. Now THAT would be cool.


im pretty sure he did have some siona genes...in chapterhouse dune isnt he kept on the no-ship cause they found some cells with it and others without?..or am i thinking of another character?..i swore it was duncan
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Postby Crysknife » 23 Feb 2008 16:24

Tyrant wrote:
Crysknife wrote:But Duncan DIDN'T have any of Siona's cells, at any time. So why even think about it?

Maybe Duncan could kill someone with Siona genes and then rub the blood all over his body as a kind of shield. Now THAT would be cool.


im pretty sure he did have some siona genes...in chapterhouse dune isnt he kept on the no-ship cause they found some cells with it and others without?..or am i thinking of another character?..i swore it was duncan


:roll:

Lucilla's quickly indrawn breath was audible. The audacity! Should Schwangyu
dare bring in a prescient searcher to follow Duncan's tracks (because Duncan
alone among them had no Siona blood in his ancestry to shield him)
all of the
marks would agree that they had come this way and fled off-planet in a no-ship .
. . provided . . .



Can we please put this "Duncan with Siona blood" behind us now? :)
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Postby Omphalos » 23 Feb 2008 16:48

Crysknife wrote:But Duncan DIDN'T have any of Siona's cells, at any time. So why even think about it?

Maybe Duncan could kill someone with Siona genes and then rub the blood all over his body as a kind of shield. Now THAT would be cool.


I read in an excised chapter from the McNelly book that Moneo secretly hid at the back of Leto's chamber and bathed in the oxygen farts from the "holy sphincter," achieving much the same effect.

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Postby Nekhrun » 23 Feb 2008 17:20

Crysknife wrote:
Tyrant wrote:
Crysknife wrote:But Duncan DIDN'T have any of Siona's cells, at any time. So why even think about it?

Maybe Duncan could kill someone with Siona genes and then rub the blood all over his body as a kind of shield. Now THAT would be cool.


im pretty sure he did have some siona genes...in chapterhouse dune isnt he kept on the no-ship cause they found some cells with it and others without?..or am i thinking of another character?..i swore it was duncan


:roll:

Lucilla's quickly indrawn breath was audible. The audacity! Should Schwangyu
dare bring in a prescient searcher to follow Duncan's tracks (because Duncan
alone among them had no Siona blood in his ancestry to shield him)
all of the
marks would agree that they had come this way and fled off-planet in a no-ship .
. . provided . . .



Can we please put this "Duncan with Siona blood" behind us now? :)

I think he meant this:

From Chapterhouse:

Odrade found this interesting. Their common Atreides ancestor from the Tyrant's eons, Siona Ibn Fuad al-Seyefa Atreides, had imparted to her descendants this ability that hid them from prescient searchers. Every person walking openly on Chapterhouse shared that ancestral protection.

"A heavy mark?" Odrade asked. "Do they doubt that the ones in question are protected?"

"They want reassurance," Bellonda growled. "And now may I return to Idaho? He has the genetic mark and he does not. It worries me. Why do some of his cells not have the Siona marker? What were the Tleilaxu doing?"


Does this not imply that there is some kind of Siona gene in Duncan?

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Postby Freakzilla » 23 Feb 2008 18:20

I think the BT were experimenting with making pre-siona people invisible to prescience.

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Postby Crysknife » 23 Feb 2008 19:44

Good find, but it must not have worked, and unless you had the marker integrated into every cell(which was impossible for Duncan), then it doesn't matter. You might as well just inject yourself with someone else's blood and hope for the best. Duncan might have had some no-gene cells throughout his body, but it didn't do anything for him, because he doesn't share the gene. He has no Siona blood. Others have the gene as part of their every cell, which gives them the protection.
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Postby SandChigger » 23 Feb 2008 20:29

Right. The BT had inserted the gene only into certain cells, so the BG were worried that it might not provide him with complete invisibility.

(Injecting yourself with the blood—full plasma, by the way; IIRC red blood cells don't contain genes—of someone with the gene marker, if it would even work, would only be of any good to you until the white blood cells (and anything else containing genetic material) died and was excreted from the body. Not a permanent solution.)
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Postby Crysknife » 23 Feb 2008 20:35

SandChigger wrote:Right. The BT had inserted the gene only into certain cells, so the BG were worried that it might not provide him with complete invisibility.

(Injecting yourself with the blood—full plasma, by the way; IIRC red blood cells don't contain genes—of someone with the gene marker, if it would even work, would only be of any good to you until the white blood cells (and anything else containing genetic material) died and was excreted from the body. Not a permanent solution.)


No no, I am aware of this, but the effect would be the same, for a bit anyway.
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Postby loremaster » 24 Feb 2008 13:04

yes, that quote about "he has the mark and he does not" is exactly what i was referring to.

i've also always thought that the BT were trying to make duncan invisible to prescience.

but now im also wondering if it could be tied to the abilities like super-sex. after all we know super-sex originated with BG (ie most likely atreides) descendants.

oh, and chigs 95% right. red blood cells do not contain nuclei and so obviously do not contain much genetic material.

One thing frank almost certainly didnt envision was how easy it is becoming to alter dna.
The HLP hasnt released Frank's notes yet, Brian hasn't got the handwriting quite right!

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Postby loremaster » 24 Feb 2008 13:07

and i still think there would have been a market for atreides-blood-anti-prescience-camo-paint
The HLP hasnt released Frank's notes yet, Brian hasn't got the handwriting quite right!

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Postby Tleilax Master B » 25 Feb 2008 18:39

Interesting conversation; quite a conundrum. First off, let me add that the BT kept killing the BG Duncan's for a reason, one that is presumably because they are doing something to those Duncan's that will help the Ascendancy later. Maybe this is the sexual bonding thang the last Duncan perfects; maybe it was something different. This introduction of Siona genes in certain cells may have somehow been a part of whatever the plan was. I like Freak's speculation that maybe the BT were trying to create no-genes even before they came to fruition in Siona--but that doesn't explain why they are appearing way afterwards--when half the population already has the gene.

One freaky thing--while I can't make a good biological connection to the siona marker in the BG Duncan's cells--is that Duncan was part of Leto's breeding program from day one and may actually be related to Siona--which he later impregnates multiple times :shock: My original thought was that some of the precursors or preliminary genes were in his cells that eventually culminated in Siona and the siona gene--her possibly being a descendant of his. The problem is, of course, that he wouldn't have these types of genes in some cells and not others so this wouldn't explain their presence in the later Duncan. But its still fun to think that Duncan was humping his great great great granddaugher :P
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Postby SandChigger » 25 Feb 2008 21:16

Tleilax Master B wrote:But its still fun to think that Duncan was humping his great great great granddaugher :P

Your name just went on a watchlist somewhere. :shock:
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Postby inhuien » 26 Feb 2008 06:17

SandChigger wrote:
Tleilax Master B wrote:But its still fun to think that Duncan was humping his great great great granddaugher :P

Your name just went on a watchlist somewhere. :shock:


Sure you’re paranoid, but, are you paranoid enough? 8) :wink:
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Postby SandChigger » 26 Feb 2008 06:21

inhuien wrote:Sure you’re paranoid, but, are you paranoid enough? 8) :wink:

Oh, Jeez, something else to worry about now! :roll:

:D
I have heard of only one mistake that doesn’t have an explanation for a careful reader...with an open mind. (And, no, I’m not going to tell you what it is!) —KJA

I don't like every writer's style; for instance, I have never been able to get through Ursula LeGuin, China Mieville, or Iain Banks, all of whom are critical darlings. —KJA

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Postby Rakis » 27 Feb 2008 00:13

SandChigger wrote:
Tleilax Master B wrote:But its still fun to think that Duncan was humping his great great great granddaugher :P

Your name just went on a watchlist somewhere. :shock:


Yeah, and the FBI has just issued a warrant for that Duncan fella... :lol:
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Postby Freakzilla » 27 Feb 2008 20:40

Rakis wrote:
SandChigger wrote:
Tleilax Master B wrote:But its still fun to think that Duncan was humping his great great great granddaugher :P

Your name just went on a watchlist somewhere. :shock:


Yeah, and the FBI has just issued a warrant for that Duncan fella... :lol:


Microsoft is probaly looking for him too, he's got a lot of software registered in his name.

:P

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Re: Duncan and prescient vision

Postby distrans » 09 Jan 2013 03:16

we should probably disappear this subject

the dipshits on the present social accendency are punch drunk on excuses for their villianry

and denying the dna evidence theyve left at the scenes of crime
tops the list of wishes they send the north pole
each morning when their talons help them
clutch out of bed



seriously
he wrote this stuff early in our understanding of the bio

if the BT could actually do this
they would have used it to obvious profit
such as chairdogs you didnt have to feed
save parking them under a lamp

the questions of duncans genes was good for the story
the description of its arrising from different cells showing different heritage wasnt


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