<Latin> <English> <Other>

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Naïve mind
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<Latin> <English> <Other>

Postby Naïve mind » 27 Feb 2013 12:19

Gaius Helen Mohiam
Tertius Eileen Anteac
Marcus Claire Luyseyal
Quintinius Violet Chenoeh
Alma Mavis Taraza

But:

Darwi Odrade
Lucilla
Bellonda
Jessica
Margot
Wanna Marcus
Tanidia Nerus

Roughly speaking, the characters written from a first person perspective have a 'normal' name; the ones representing the Bene Gesserit as an organisation have a 'full' name. Any thoughts on this? And would Jessica, etc. perhaps have a 'full' name that is never shown?

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Re: <Latin> <English> <Other>

Postby Freakzilla » 27 Feb 2013 13:49

Jessica Harkonnen :wink:
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leagued
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Re: <Latin> <English> <Other>

Postby leagued » 28 Feb 2013 03:44

Gaius, Marcus, Tertius and possibly Quintinius are all male names too.

Should've been Jessica Atreides nee Harkonnen if Leto had had a little more sack.
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inhuien
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Re: <Latin> <English> <Other>

Postby inhuien » 28 Feb 2013 04:24

Isn't nee only relative if the persons name was changed due to marriage i.e. Mrs Jones nee Miss Smith

Oh to add@ Leto II was all sack from the neck backwards :)
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lotek
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Re: <Latin> <English> <Other>

Postby lotek » 28 Feb 2013 07:37

Naïve mind wrote:Gaius Helen Mohiam
Tertius Eileen Anteac
Marcus Claire Luyseyal
Quintinius Violet Chenoeh
Alma Mavis Taraza

But:

Darwi Odrade
Lucilla
Bellonda
Jessica
Margot
Wanna Marcus
Tanidia Nerus

Roughly speaking, the characters written from a first person perspective have a 'normal' name; the ones representing the Bene Gesserit as an organisation have a 'full' name. Any thoughts on this? And would Jessica, etc. perhaps have a 'full' name that is never shown?



When you say roughly, does that mean you also found examples that infer that theory?
The way I see it, it's like algebra, it's all right or all wrong, if not it's just coincidence.

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Spice is the worm's gonads.

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leagued
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Re: <Latin> <English> <Other>

Postby leagued » 28 Feb 2013 10:06

inhuien wrote:Isn't nee only relative if the persons name was changed due to marriage i.e. Mrs Jones nee Miss Smith

Oh to add@ Leto II was all sack from the neck backwards :)


wikipedia wrote:The French and English-adopted term "née" (pron.: /ˈneɪ/ or /ˈniː/; French: [ˈne]), meaning "born as," can be applied to a woman's name at birth that has been replaced for any reason.[1] The French masculine inflection corresponding to née is "né"; while less readily recognized by non-French-speakers, it is likewise applied to masculine family names changed for any reason.[2] (The diacritics are sometimes omitted.)


And Leto definitely was. You can bet it would have been Hwi Atreides nee Noree and not Leto Noree or Hwi Atreides-Noree or something else similar.

Do I sound chauvinist? Apologies.
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Naïve mind
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Re: <Latin> <English> <Other>

Postby Naïve mind » 28 Feb 2013 11:15

Yeah, good point. Here's another pattern: almost all the latin-named ones are Important Reverend Mothers; the exception is Chenoeh, who was on the verge of becoming a RM.

Ramallo, Jessica - RM, but not through official Bene Gesserit rites
Wanna Marcus, Margot, Tanidia Nerus - We can assume whatever we want

So, the alternate hypothesis I had was that the "Latin" name is a honorific given to Bene Gesserit who have passed through the spice agony. Perhaps these are the names of some particularly annoying ancestors in their cellular memories or something.

If you allow for Chenoeh receiving her name posthumously (and why not?) then it all fits nicely. Until Heretics of Dune, where we see Bellonda, Darwi Odrade, Lucilla; all pretty important RMs, firmly embedded in the Bene Gesserit organisation, but not a Latin (or contemporary European) name in sight.

So... perhaps Frank Herbert simply got bored of the pattern, or the names were never more than a simple gimmick to make certain BG seem more aloof or respectable than others. Imagine RM Mohiam being introduced as "Mother Mo" instead of "The reverend Gaius Helen Mohiam".

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lotek
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Re: <Latin> <English> <Other>

Postby lotek » 28 Feb 2013 12:13

Naïve mind wrote:Yeah, good point. Here's another pattern: almost all the latin-named ones are Important Reverend Mothers; the exception is Chenoeh, who was on the verge of becoming a RM.

Ramallo, Jessica - RM, but not through official Bene Gesserit rites
Wanna Marcus, Margot, Tanidia Nerus - We can assume whatever we want

So, the alternate hypothesis I had was that the "Latin" name is a honorific given to Bene Gesserit who have passed through the spice agony. Perhaps these are the names of some particularly annoying ancestors in their cellular memories or something.

If you allow for Chenoeh receiving her name posthumously (and why not?) then it all fits nicely. Until Heretics of Dune, where we see Bellonda, Darwi Odrade, Lucilla; all pretty important RMs, firmly embedded in the Bene Gesserit organisation, but not a Latin (or contemporary European) name in sight.



Maybe this pattern could have evolved in time, after all, BGs are weary of patterns, but this sounds more like it, worth pushing it further.

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