Tlilaxian adoration of the God Emperor

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Tlilaxian adoration of the God Emperor

Postby Unfront » 12 Mar 2009 16:46

I noticed that in Heretics of Dune, the Tleilaxu are worshipers of "The divided God". At what point did tleilaxians begin to accept the God Emperor as Gods messenger as a part of their religion? I thought the Tleilaxu and the Atreides mutually abhored each other.

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Re: Tlilaxian adoration of the God Emperor

Postby Freakzilla » 12 Mar 2009 19:05

Unfront wrote:I noticed that in Heretics of Dune, the Tleilaxu are worshipers of "The divided God". At what point did tleilaxians begin to accept the God Emperor as Gods messenger as a part of their religion? I thought the Tleilaxu and the Atreides mutually abhored each other.


Between GEoD and HoD. :wink:

Everyone had to adapt in the presence of the God Emperor in order to survive, I guess it stuck.
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Postby SwordMaster » 12 Mar 2009 19:39

What do you think the Atreides Manifesto was? :D

However, if I am not mistaken, he was only a "messenger" still a holy entity. FZ will hit us with a quote Im sure.

It is a good point you make Unfront.
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Postby Freakzilla » 12 Mar 2009 21:13

SwordMaster wrote:FZ will hit us with a quote Im sure.


They had waited millennia for this time, his people. Waff savored the moment
now. All through the bad times of the Prophet Leto II (not God Emperor but
God's Messenger), all through the Famines and the Scattering, through every
painful defeat at the hands of lesser creatures, through all of those agonies
the Tleilaxu had built their patient forces for this moment.

~HoD
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Postby Seraphan » 13 Mar 2009 07:45

SwordMaster wrote:What do you think the Atreides Manifesto was? :D

If memory serves me right, it was a document stating that the only true religion was the tleilaxu one. It served as a bait, i think.
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Postby SwordMaster » 13 Mar 2009 09:07

Freakzilla wrote:
SwordMaster wrote:FZ will hit us with a quote Im sure.


They had waited millennia for this time, his people. Waff savored the moment
now. All through the bad times of the Prophet Leto II (not God Emperor but
God's Messenger), all through the Famines and the Scattering, through every
painful defeat at the hands of lesser creatures, through all of those agonies
the Tleilaxu had built their patient forces for this moment.

~HoD


Thank you FZ!
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Postby Freakzilla » 13 Mar 2009 09:56

Seraphan wrote:
SwordMaster wrote:What do you think the Atreides Manifesto was? :D

If memory serves me right, it was a document stating that the only true religion was the tleilaxu one. It served as a bait, i think.


Would you care to expand on that?
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Postby SwordMaster » 13 Mar 2009 10:01

Freakzilla wrote:
Seraphan wrote:
SwordMaster wrote:What do you think the Atreides Manifesto was? :D

If memory serves me right, it was a document stating that the only true religion was the tleilaxu one. It served as a bait, i think.


Would you care to expand on that?


Yeah it was a bit more then that, it had to do with the idea of "true faith" as well, and by "bait" I think you mean the BG used it to get close to the BT and somehow make the BT think they shared the same "great belief" to some extent create the appearance of an alliance, or the potential for one. Plans within plans.
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Postby Seraphan » 13 Mar 2009 10:12

SwordMaster wrote:
Freakzilla wrote:
Seraphan wrote:
SwordMaster wrote:What do you think the Atreides Manifesto was? :D

If memory serves me right, it was a document stating that the only true religion was the tleilaxu one. It served as a bait, i think.


Would you care to expand on that?


Yeah it was a bit more then that, it had to do with the idea of "true faith" as well, and by "bait" I think you mean the BG used it to get close to the BT and somehow make the BT think they shared the same "great belief" to some extent create the appearance of an alliance, or the potential for one. Plans within plans.

Bingo :P Although i think there was another intended effect with other factions but i'm not sure. I'm gonna have to go read Heretics again to check that.
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Postby SwordMaster » 13 Mar 2009 14:46

Seraphan wrote:
SwordMaster wrote:
Freakzilla wrote:
Seraphan wrote:
SwordMaster wrote:What do you think the Atreides Manifesto was? :D

If memory serves me right, it was a document stating that the only true religion was the tleilaxu one. It served as a bait, i think.


Would you care to expand on that?


Yeah it was a bit more then that, it had to do with the idea of "true faith" as well, and by "bait" I think you mean the BG used it to get close to the BT and somehow make the BT think they shared the same "great belief" to some extent create the appearance of an alliance, or the potential for one. Plans within plans.

Bingo :P Although i think there was another intended effect with other factions but i'm not sure. I'm gonna have to go read Heretics again to check that.


It had universal effect, one could argue the influence of the document reached the vast depths of the scattering. I would say the BG always had a universal plan in everything they did, from Missionaria Protectiva to the Atreides Manifesto they were always cultivating universal influence.
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Postby Freakzilla » 13 Mar 2009 14:53

SwordMaster wrote:
Seraphan wrote:
SwordMaster wrote:
Freakzilla wrote:
Seraphan wrote:
SwordMaster wrote:What do you think the Atreides Manifesto was? :D

If memory serves me right, it was a document stating that the only true religion was the tleilaxu one. It served as a bait, i think.


Would you care to expand on that?


Yeah it was a bit more then that, it had to do with the idea of "true faith" as well, and by "bait" I think you mean the BG used it to get close to the BT and somehow make the BT think they shared the same "great belief" to some extent create the appearance of an alliance, or the potential for one. Plans within plans.

Bingo :P Although i think there was another intended effect with other factions but i'm not sure. I'm gonna have to go read Heretics again to check that.


It had universal effect, one could argue the influence of the document reached the vast depths of the scattering. I would say the BG always had a universal plan in everything they did, from Missionaria Protectiva to the Atreides Manifesto they were always cultivating universal influence.


Don't you think the Atreides Manifesto falls under the Missionaria Protectiva's scope?
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Postby SwordMaster » 13 Mar 2009 14:58

Freakzilla wrote:
SwordMaster wrote:
Seraphan wrote:
SwordMaster wrote:
Freakzilla wrote:
Seraphan wrote:
SwordMaster wrote:What do you think the Atreides Manifesto was? :D

If memory serves me right, it was a document stating that the only true religion was the tleilaxu one. It served as a bait, i think.


Would you care to expand on that?


Yeah it was a bit more then that, it had to do with the idea of "true faith" as well, and by "bait" I think you mean the BG used it to get close to the BT and somehow make the BT think they shared the same "great belief" to some extent create the appearance of an alliance, or the potential for one. Plans within plans.

Bingo :P Although i think there was another intended effect with other factions but i'm not sure. I'm gonna have to go read Heretics again to check that.


It had universal effect, one could argue the influence of the document reached the vast depths of the scattering. I would say the BG always had a universal plan in everything they did, from Missionaria Protectiva to the Atreides Manifesto they were always cultivating universal influence.


Don't you think the Atreides Manifesto falls under the Missionaria Protectiva's scope?


Indeed. Other then the time distance between to two they have a strong connection.
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Postby Freakzilla » 13 Mar 2009 15:04

I'm confused... :?

The MP was still around at the time of the Manifesto, they were planning for Sheeana's return.

I'm saying Odrade probably had direction from them, since she was Head of Security and religion was not her speciality.
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Postby Schu » 13 Mar 2009 17:47

I didn't think it was anything specifically targeted at the Tleilaxu, especially since not even Taraza knew about their religion until her meeting with Waff.

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Postby SwordMaster » 13 Mar 2009 19:10

Freakzilla wrote:I'm confused... :?

The MP was still around at the time of the Manifesto, they were planning for Sheeana's return.

I'm saying Odrade probably had direction from them, since she was Head of Security and religion was not her speciality.


Sorry I ment the time difference between their conception FZ, not being clear in my prev posting. I was relating more to the fact they both sharred a common theme in creation. Odrade was under direction from various sources including OM during its conception, now do you see the connection I am making? I also feel that this was a security issue more then a religous one. ;)
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Postby Freakzilla » 15 Mar 2009 17:12

SwordMaster wrote:
Freakzilla wrote:I'm confused... :?

The MP was still around at the time of the Manifesto, they were planning for Sheeana's return.

I'm saying Odrade probably had direction from them, since she was Head of Security and religion was not her speciality.


Sorry I ment the time difference between their conception FZ, not being clear in my prev posting. I was relating more to the fact they both sharred a common theme in creation. Odrade was under direction from various sources including OM during its conception, now do you see the connection I am making? I also feel that this was a security issue more then a religous one. ;)


Good points.
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Re:

Postby Raveem » 26 Oct 2009 21:42

Freakzilla wrote:
SwordMaster wrote:FZ will hit us with a quote Im sure.


... the Prophet Leto II (not God Emperor but
God's Messenger) ...

~HoD


I'm struck by the how the Tleilaxu insistence on the non-divinity of Leto is analogous to Muslim insistence of the non-divinity of Jesus.

Raveem.

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Re: Tlilaxian adoration of the God Emperor

Postby Harq al Ada » 26 Oct 2009 22:40

Unfront wrote:I noticed that in Heretics of Dune, the Tleilaxu are worshipers of "The divided God". At what point did tleilaxians begin to accept the God Emperor as Gods messenger as a part of their religion?


when they realized Leto II was as powerful as he was and that they had to. Religion adapts to reality to a certain degree (a very minor one) or it dies.

Look at the RCC or any modern religion; you can hardly recognize it from its original conception. How many people are stone from working on the "Sabbath" or for any other minor moral offense that was soooooo dire 2000 +/- years ago? Islam is trying to without admitting its own (Mohannad's eraser) hypocrisy (Mohammad was a perv sex fiend).
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Re: Tlilaxian adoration of the God Emperor

Postby Redstar » 27 Oct 2009 00:15

Harq al Ada wrote:Look at the RCC or any modern religion; you can hardly recognize it from its original conception. How many people are stone from working on the "Sabbath" or for any other minor moral offense that was soooooo dire 2000 +/- years ago? Islam is trying to without admitting its own (Mohannad's eraser) hypocrisy (Mohammad was a perv sex fiend).

How so?

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Re: Tlilaxian adoration of the God Emperor

Postby Harq al Ada » 27 Oct 2009 01:28

Redstar wrote:
Harq al Ada wrote:Look at the RCC or any modern religion; you can hardly recognize it from its original conception. How many people are stone from working on the "Sabbath" or for any other minor moral offense that was soooooo dire 2000 +/- years ago? Islam is trying to without admitting its own (Mohannad's eraser) hypocrisy (Mohammad was a perv sex fiend).

How so?


how so, what? which part are you how so-ing?

if you want I can break down how the 2 brainwash factories have cherry picked their books to fit modern ideas of morality.

I'm a few deep so forgive me if what I'm writing is a little muddled.
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Re: Tlilaxian adoration of the God Emperor

Postby Redstar » 27 Oct 2009 01:51

I bolded what I was questioning.

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Re: Tlilaxian adoration of the God Emperor

Postby SandChigger » 27 Oct 2009 05:30

Nine-year-old wife, for starters?

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Re: Tlilaxian adoration of the God Emperor

Postby Raveem » 27 Oct 2009 09:19

There are several objections here, but I won't name them; this is a discussion forum about Dune.

Raveem.

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Re: Tlilaxian adoration of the God Emperor

Postby Freakzilla » 27 Oct 2009 09:43

Raveem wrote:There are several objections here, but I won't name them; this is a discussion forum about Dune.

Raveem.


Is religion not a prominent theme in the Dune Series? :?

BTW, Abraham, Moses, Hebrew prophets, and Jesus were all Prophets in Islam, but their message and the texts of the Torah and the Gospels were corrupted by Jews and Christians.
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Re: Tlilaxian adoration of the God Emperor

Postby Harq al Ada » 27 Oct 2009 12:24

Redstar wrote:I bolded what I was questioning.

sorry, didn't notice that last night.

I was being flippant but yah...
SandChigger wrote:Nine-year-old wife, for starters?
that's a big one.

"Prophet, We have made lawful to you the wives whom you have granted dowries and the slave girls whom God has given you as booty;..." QURAN - 33:50
Raping people and sanctioning rape is pretty immoral and sexually perverse also.

interesting stuff here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKWf7iX6ru0
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