Yep, no thread is ever truly dead here. (A few smell like they need burying, of course, but if you stay upwind of the Politics forum...
Petike the Smuggler wrote:
All right, my two cents : Grumman
is a surname, probably of German origin. Over the years, I've noticed there are some barers of it in North America (not sure about Germany or its neighbouring countries though). But the most famous usage of the surname was the title of the well-known aircraft manufacturer and aerospace company : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grumman
(Currently Northrop Grumman.)
A ridiculous idea...
Not at all. You could very well have pinpointed where FH got the idea. Although there have been other suggestions (see below).
How far away from Earth/Terra was the planet Grumman supposed to be ? Because unless it was simply named after some long forgotten historical figure or its discoverer, couldn't there be a teensy possibility that a far future descendant of the original company manufactured the first colony ship that made it there during the earliest history of interstellar flight (many millenia before the BJ, Guild or Imperium) ? Of course, the company would be a long forgotten piece of old Terran trivia by the time of the Imperium, but the name would still live on. Kind of like Ix was originally IX (9)...
Grumman is the "second planet of Niushe". According to Joseph M. Daniels in his "Dune Gazetteer"*,
Niushe is the Chinese name for Psi Draconis and means "Palace Governess" or "Literary Woman". The ordinary name for this star, Dsiban, is a corruption of the Arabic Al Dhibain, meaning the "Hyenas", an asterism the Arabs saw in this and surrounding stars. [SN, page 212] ... Actually Psi Draconis is a binary star whose components are 30" apart. I am associating Niushe with the primary star of the two.
The star is 71.9 LY from Earth. About Grumman itself we have,
Grumman is the second planet of Niushe and the home planet of House Moritani, who fought and defeated the House Ginaz in a war of assassins.
The House Ginaz will be an ally of the Atreides; and Duncan Idaho (the Original), their Swordmaster. Their defeat in 10181 was a prelude to the disaster on Dune ten years later. [DE, pages 501-502]
It is believed that Grumman will be the native planet of Nayla, the Fish Speaker whose loyalty Leto II so cruelly twisted to consummate his sacrifice. [DE, page 396]
The planetary name may have been suggested by the name for Xi Draconis: Grumium, meaning "jaw (of the dragon)". [SN, page 211] For comments on the star and constellation, see "Corrin", "Gamont", and "Arrakis".
To be honest, I like your suggestion better.
But we have to keep in mind the gulf of time between now and then, and how the names may have changed with the language. Names are usually more resistant to time's ravages, but even "Atreides" eventually becomes "Odrade" in at least one dialect of Galach.
I think I vaguely remember the Chinese-sounding term from the third book, but I've never given it much thought. The Ixians being mostly descendants of East Asians is a pretty interesting idea though. On a similar note : I wonder how your average Duniverse inhabitant would look like. Obviously, the enviroment of his home planet would probably be the determining factor on his outward appearance... But do you think such a person might have facial or other physical features associated with any of the current human races (the 3 or 4 "main ones" and the multitude of transitive ones) ?
Yes, the phrase is from CoD
Muad'Dib's religion had another name now; it was Shien-san-Shao, an Ixian label which designated the intensity and insanity of those who thought they could bring the universe to paradise at the point of a crysknife.
Of course, in twenty thousand years' time even English could become so analytic and its words so whittled down that it could be the ancestor of the Ixian language. Without more data we can't really say what the original is in terms of linguistic analysis, but FH's use of modern exemplars projected far into the future is at least suggestive.
(If it is supposed to be Chinese, the romanization is odd. Or one that I don't recognize... always a possibility!
It really is impossible to say what the average inhabitant of the Duniverse will look like. Obviously there are still gingers. *Daniels, Joseph M. (1999) The Stars and Planets of Frank Herbert's _Dune_: A Gazetteer (available as text file at many locations online; just google it.)
"SN = Star Names, by Richard Hinckley Allen (Dover Publications, Inc., New York, 1963). A re-publication of Star-Names and Their Meanings, 1899. (This book, given its status as a classic work on this subject, may very well have been a source-or even the source-for Frank Herbert.)"