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    Chapter 41

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    Chapter 41

    Postby Freakzilla » 24 Mar 2008 18:50

    "Control the coinage and the courts -- let the rabble have the rest." Thus the
    Padishah Emperor advises you. And he tells you: "If you want profits, you must
    rule." There is truth in these words, but I ask myself: "Who are the rabble and
    who are the ruled?"

    -Muad'Dib's Secret Message to the Landsraad from "Arrakis Awakening" by the
    Princess Irulan


    Jessica is in her room in a Southern Sietch, worrying about Paul’s sandrider test. Harah brings Alia to her, she hid behind a curtain to watch the birth of a child. She came out from hiding, touched the child and stopped it from crying. This upset the Fremen because a Fremen baby must get all it’s crying done at birth. What really upsets them though is that Alia says the child looks like one born on Bela Tegeuse before the parting. Harah tells Jessica it’s not just the things she knows but the Bene Gesserit exercises too. The other children refuse to play with her and say she’s a demon. Also, it’s the way Alia could talk from birth and knew the water discipline. Alia and Jessica explain to Harah how Alia was awakened to consciousness in Jessica’s womb during the Ceremony of the Seed, how the memories of Jessica and all the Reverend Mothers before them were forced on her, so she can explain it to others.

    They are interrupted by the ceremony remembering the slave raids on Poritrin, Bela Tegeuse, Rossak and Harmonthep. As soon as it ends, a Fremen woman comes in and warns Jessica that the young men know of Paul’s sandrider test and plan to go raiding and meet up with him in the North to force Paul to call out Stilgar and assume leadership of the Tribes. Jessica sends Alia and Harah to try to diffuse the situation.
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    Re: Chapter 41

    Postby Freakzilla » 04 Jan 2012 17:29

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    Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
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    Re: Chapter 41

    Postby Lisan Al-Gaib » 05 Feb 2015 11:36

    Honestly, if someone could explain to me, I did not understand the last paragraphs of this chapter. What was Harah insinuating when speaking about dirt rugs?
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    Re: Chapter 41

    Postby Freakzilla » 05 Feb 2015 14:29

    I think she was just trying to change the subject. :?
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    Re: Chapter 41

    Postby georgiedenbro » 05 Feb 2015 16:18

    Lisan Al-Gaib wrote:Honestly, if someone could explain to me, I did not understand the last paragraphs of this chapter. What was Harah insinuating when speaking about dirt rugs?


    I believe I can offer an explanation. Harah had just informed Jessica that she was soon to become Stilgar's wife and would be leaving Paul's household along with her boys. When the issue of sandriding came up the issue again arose that Paul would have to challenge Stilgar. When Alia offered to go along with Tharthar and the young men who were going to the celebration, Harah assured Jessica that Tharthar could be trusted to watch over Alia while there because Harah and Tharthar had 'come to an understanding' regarding sharing Stilgar as a husband. This is an important point because it illustrates how the Fremen are a completely pragmatic people who always place the good of the tribe over personal feelings or ambitions. Harah and Tharthar knew they had to work it out between them for the good of Stilgar and the tribe.

    Right after this the issue of the potential duel between Paul and Stilgar comes up again, and while both Harah and Jessica agree that Paul would surely win such a conflict, Harah says that, contrary to normal Fremen custom, in this case it would not serve the good of the tribe for Paul to slay Stilgar as their customs demand. Harah then states that her comment isn't biased on account of her upcoming marriage to Stilgar, even though Jessica obviously suspects that Harah at this point might just be trying to protect Stilgar.

    Dune wrote:"And you think my personal feelings enter into my judgment," Harah said. She shook her head, her water rings tinkling at her neck. "How wrong you are. Perhaps you think, as well, that I regret not being the chosen of Usul, that I am jealous of Chani?"
    "You make your own choice as you are able," Jessica said.
    "I pity Chani," Harah said.
    Jessica stiffened. "What do you mean?"
    "I know what you think of Chani," Harah said. "You think she is not the wife for your son."
    Jessica settled back, relaxed on her cushions. She shrugged. "Perhaps."
    "You could be right," Harah said. "If you are, you may find a surprising ally -- Chani herself. She wants whatever is best for Him."
    Jessica swallowed past a sudden tightening in her throat. "Chani's very dear to me," she said. "She could be no --"
    "Your rugs are very dirty in here," Harah said. She swept her gaze around the floor, avoiding Jessica's eyes. "So many people tramping through here all the time. You really should have them cleaned more often."


    At first we might ask why Harah can say her personal feelings don't enter into it, and yet offer no explanation to back up that claim. Surely any normal person would be biased in those circumstances? The point is, not if that person is a Fremen. Their practicality and putting the tribe first can be traced down to every facet of life, and for Jessica to wonder whether Harah would have the tribe suffer in order to protect her to-be husband betrays that Jessica doesn't yet understand what the Fremen are all about. After briefly discussing Chani and how Chani, too, is a true Fremen (something Harah also here insinuates Jessica doesn't understand, since Jessica doesn't realize that Chani would support not marrying Muad'dib if it was for the good of the tribe), Jessica begins to make a statement insisting that Chani would be no embarrassment to the Atreides family, or some such comment, when Harah obviously concludes that Jessica just doesn't get it. It's not about family honor, or anyone being dear to anyone else, or about bias or personal loyalty, it's about the good of the tribe, and Harah sums this up succinctly with her comment about the rugs. In the midst of a conversation that is by all accounts deeply personal and important, Harah's comment about the dirty rugs needing cleaning is a prime case-in-point about the Fremen pragmatism trumping all other considerations even when personal feelings are involved. Harah and Chani's (and any Fremen's) personal feelings will always take second place to practical necessity, such as the leadership of the tribe, the harmony of the sietch, even down to details such as cleaning the rugs. It's all the same. She is using a very clever image to suggest to Jessica that she still has an off-world mentality and isn't thinking like a Fremen.

    Now take a look at a passage from the beginning of the chapter and you see how it ties together:

    Dune wrote:Yet she [Jessica] knew she would never overcome a feeling of being in an alien place.
    It was the harshness that the rugs and hangings attempted to conceal.


    Jessica really is an outsider living among the Fremen, even though she carries memories from their history. And now check out the chapter head itself:

    Dune wrote:"Control the coinage and the courts -- let the rabble have the rest." Thus the
    Padishah Emperor advises you. And he tells you: "If you want profits, you must
    rule." There is truth in these words, but I ask myself: "Who are the rabble and
    who are the ruled?"
    -Muad'Dib's Secret Message to the Landsraad from "Arrakis Awakening" by the
    Princess Irulan


    Who are the rabble and who are the ruled? We might wonder, as Dune is being told, who rules and who is ruled between House Atreides and the Fremen. I can't give spoilers here, but I can state in any case that the issue of who is using whom in terms of Paul and the Fremen is an important one, and this applies as well to Jessica. While Jessica may be the Fremen's RM and have some authority, it's important to note that even though she has a leadership position among them they don't value her in particular so much as what benefits the tribe. As such, their RM just has a role to play within the tribe and is just another piece of pragmatic survival. In this sense, Jessica isn't so much 'in charge' of anything so much as granted that position and respect by the Fremen, who are the source of her authority. This relationship, too, is of a practical nature, and for the chapter to end with mention of the dirty rugs is to subtly remind Jessica that the practical relationship between Jessica, Paul and the Fremen is of the same practical nature as the need to clean rugs, and that neither Jessica nor the reader should fool themselves into thinking that the Fremen do anything for sentimental or selfish reasons.

    It was a good question, in hindsight, as this sort of seemingly strange paragraph gives us another great glimpse at the genius in how FH chose to express ideas and to use a notion like noticing dirty rugs in the face of a crisis to show in practice the kind of pragmatic people the Fremen are.
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    Re: Chapter 41

    Postby Lisan Al-Gaib » 05 Feb 2015 19:59

    I appreciated and liked very much your analysis, but I don't believe it makes sense Harah becoming Stilgar wife since they expect him to loose the duel. About Harah and Thartar, from what I comprehend they have come to a understanding because thartar is becoming also Muad'Dib's family. By re-thinking the last paragraphs, I think they are probably discussing about the difficulty of being the leader's wife and Paul Atreides having 'strange powers' which Chani has to deal with. Chani endures in a similar way to Jessica in respect to Duke Leto, both had to face hard moments and also have to stay at their sides.
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    Re: Chapter 41

    Postby georgiedenbro » 05 Feb 2015 21:11

    Lisan Al-Gaib wrote:I appreciated and liked very much your analysis, but I don't believe it makes sense Harah becoming Stilgar wife since they expect him to loose the duel. About Harah and Thartar, from what I comprehend they have come to a understanding because thartar is becoming also Muad'Dib's family. By re-thinking the last paragraphs, I think they are probably discussing about the difficulty of being the leader's wife and Paul Atreides having 'strange powers' which Chani has to deal with. Chani endures in a similar way to Jessica in respect to Duke Leto, both had to face hard moments and also have to stay at their sides.


    I'm not sure if you mean you don't think it was a good idea for Harah and Stilgar to plan marriage, or you mean to say you don't believe me when I say they were going to be married. If the latter, here's the passage:

    Dune wrote:Harah answered the unspoken part of the question: "Tharthar will allow no
    harm to befall Alia. She knows we will soon be wives together, she and I, to
    share the same man.
    We have talked, Tharthar and I." Harah looked up at
    Tharthar, back to Jessica. "We have an understanding."


    In case you think this means they'll both be sharing Muad'dib (even though Harah isn't Muad'dib's wife anyhow), here's the passage for that point:

    Dune wrote:"I respect the fact that you're a member of my son's household," Jessica
    said. (Alia stirred against her hand.) "You may speak openly with me of
    whatever's troubling you."
    "I will not be a member of your son's household much longer," Harah said.
    "I've waited this long for the sake of my sons, the special training they
    receive as the children of Usul. It's little enough I could give them since it's
    known I don't share your son's bed."


    The issue about Chani at the end isn't how she'll deal with Paul's powers, it's how she'll handle being the consort of the leader of the Fremen. Chani would know that the good of the tribe is more important than her wishes, and if Paul marrying a noble will help the Fremen then Chani would accept being his concubine.
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    Re: Chapter 41

    Postby pcqypcqy » 17 Jul 2017 05:58

    I always read this as Paul is about to be forced to slay Stilgar, hence Thartar would also become Paul's wife/ghanima. The reference to Harah's leaving Paul's household was more to do with the year for him to decide being up I thought.

    I'm reading dune again currently and looking for the point where Harah becomes married to Stilgar, but I'm not sure this is it.
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