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    Chapter 13

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      ʙᴏᴏᴋ ᴛᴡᴏ ɪɴ ᴛʜᴇ ᴅᴜɴᴇ ᴄʜʀᴏɴɪᴄʟᴇꜱ

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    Chapter 13

    Postby Freakzilla » 12 Feb 2008 21:31

    "I've had a bellyful of the god and priest business! You think I don't see my
    own mythos? Consult your data once more, Hayt. I've insinuated my rites into the
    most elementary human acts. The people eat in the name of Muad'dib! They make
    love in my name, are born in my name -- cross the street in my name. A roof beam
    cannot be raised in the lowliest hovel of far Gangishree without invoking the
    blessing of Muad'dib!"

    -Book of Diatribes from The Hayt Chronicle

    Scytale goes to visit Edric. He wants to prod the ghola into faster action after learning of Paul's bid to the Bene Gesserit for his offspring, he is afraid Paul is trying to split the conspiracy. Edric says that he was told the weapon could only be aimed and released. Scytale says any ghola can be disturbed by asking it about it's original being. Edric is afraid the ghola or Alia might figure out what they're doing and wonders what back-up plan Scytale might have to save himself. Sytale is worried that Alia might wed and have children. The future is as couldy for Edric as it is for Paul. If Paul falls and Alia is left to take control, they will "feel the thunderbolt".
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    Re: Chapter 12

    Postby Mandy » 08 Jul 2009 12:23

    The discussion between Scytale and Edric is one of my favorites in the book. I wish Scytale had been given a larger role, he's an interesting character.
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    Re: Chapter 12

    Postby Freakzilla » 08 Jul 2009 12:29

    Mandy wrote:The discussion between Scytale and Edric is one of my favorites in the book. I wish Scytale had been given a larger role, he's an interesting character.


    I like the way he holds his own with RM Mohiam and talks down to Edric the Guild navigator.
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    Re: Chapter 12

    Postby Schu » 10 Jul 2009 08:46

    The idea of a killer that is so good because of the sympatico they feel with the victim is quite clever.
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    Re: Chapter 13

    Postby Mandy » 28 Dec 2011 15:32

    This chapter is the one where I realized just how useless Edric is (other than his ability to hide the conspiracy). I don't know if Scytale ever made him understand. The universe was shaken, anyway!
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    Re: Chapter 13

    Postby Freakzilla » 28 Dec 2011 15:42

    He's probably usefull as a navigator. But yes, the other conspiritors make it clear that hiding them is his only reason for being included. I think they even point this out in their first meeting. However, this does seem to give him some power within the cabal.
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    Re: Chapter 13

    Postby Mandy » 28 Dec 2011 15:50

    I don't remember if it was in this chapter or an earlier one where Edric actually asked some insightful questions... but I don't think he knew. It's like having something on the tip of your tongue but never remembering.
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    Re: Chapter 13

    Postby Freakzilla » 28 Dec 2011 15:56

    I don't think he was an idiot, just not the same caliber as Syctale and Mohiam. You're probably thinking about their meeting in Chapter 2.
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    Re: Chapter 13

    Postby JustSomeGuy » 11 Feb 2012 11:35

    Great chapter. A lot of information to be gleaned, and very entertaining.
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    Re: Chapter 13

    Postby Freakzilla » 20 Apr 2012 17:02

    Revised, clean.
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    Re: Chapter 13

    Postby georgiedenbro » 02 Sep 2014 10:17

    The rare insight someone above mentioned is this:

    Dune Messiah wrote:"This is not the shape which walked the streets?" Edric asked.
    "One would not look twice at some of the figures I have been today," Scytale
    said.
    The chameleon thinks a change of shape will hide him from anything, Edric
    thought with rare insight. And he wondered if his presence in the conspiracy
    truly hid them from all oracular powers. The Emperor's sister, now . . .


    This thought, that a power can be a crutch, is echoed again later by Edric:

    Dune Messiah wrote:"Any ghola can be disturbed," Scytale said. "You need do nothing more than
    question him about his original being."
    "What will this do?"
    "It will stir him to actions which will serve our purposes."
    "He is a mentat with powers of logic and reason," Edric objected. "He may
    guess what I'm doing . . . or the sister. If her attention is focused upon --"
    "Do you hide us from the sibyl or don't you?" Scytale asked.
    "I'm not afraid of oracles," Edric said. "I'm concerned with logic, with
    real spies, with the physical powers of the Imperium, with the control of the
    spice, with
    --"


    Having prescience can fool someone into thinking that its implementation will solve all problems. The same is true for other powers. Something similar to this sentiment had been expressed in the previous chapter by Mohiam:

    Dune Messiah wrote:She [Mohiam] broke her gaze from Alia's, feeling her own ambivalence and
    inadequacies. The pitfall of Bene Gesserit training, she reminded herself, lay
    in the powers granted: such powers predisposed one to vanity and pride. But
    power deluded those who used it. One tended to believe power could overcome any
    barrier . . . including one's own ignorance
    .


    I like this motif in Dune Messiah, which throws a whole new light on what we saw in Dune. In the first book we are continually impressed by persons with greater and greater power than each other, and we have a final confrontation between Paul and Feyd to see who is really the greatest fighter, most cunning, the 'best man.' We even get a shadow glimpse at Fenring being perhaps even a greater fighter (or at least more deceptive), but that confrontation is forestalled by Paul's compassion for Fenring. We see from this Paul's (and before him, Leto's) strength: He is well rounded, and doesn't rely on just one kind of power. He even uses the opposite of force, caring, as a power. Now we are getting an entire book about the crutch of having too much stock in only one kind of power.

    In Dune Shaddam IV ruled mostly through sheer might, and was overcome by greater might. The Guild held a monopoly through blackmail, and was overcome by greater blackmail. The BG held their power in genetic control, and were undone by their genetic triumph. Now in DM we have the awareness that having one great strength is no strength at all unless it's balanced by other strengths. Edric has the insight about the chameleons being too reliant on hiding, and even has the insight that his own proof against prescience is insufficient by itself when confronted by logic, spies, and physical power. This dependence on particular skills is what made each faction by itself unable to threaten Paul, and is why they felt they needed an alliance, a blending of specialities. Although Scytale notes that their particular alliance is unstable and not a good match, we do get to see here the seeds of what will be needed in future generations of people: To have a more whole and complete vision of what set of skills are needed to survive.
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