• Register
  • Login
  •          

    Chapter 02

    Image
      ʙᴏᴏᴋ ᴛᴡᴏ ɪɴ ᴛʜᴇ ᴅᴜɴᴇ ᴄʜʀᴏɴɪᴄʟᴇꜱ

    Moderators: Omphalos, Freakzilla, ᴶᵛᵀᴬ

    Chapter 02

    Postby Freakzilla » 12 Feb 2008 20:58

    There exists no separation between gods and men: one blends softly casual into
    the other.

    -Proverbs of Muad'dib

    This is a meeting of conspirators agains Muad'dib. They include Reverend Mother Mohiam, Princess Irulan (potentially), Guild Navigator Edric and Scytale, a Tleilaxu Face Dancer. We learn that Edric has the power to shield their conspiracy from Muad'dib's prescience and the other members consider him a fool, only usefull in this capacity. They are trying to convince Irulan to make a genuine commitment to their conspiracy else Paul may discover her involvment through prescience. It is revealed that Irulan has been secretly giving Chani a contrceptive because she wants to be the mother of the heirs to the empire. The Guild has salvaged the corpse of Duncan Idaho and the Bene Tleilax have regrown his flesh in their axlotl tanks. They call him Hayt now and plan to use him against Paul as a psychic poison. They also hope that Hayt will be able to charm Alia. Hayt has also been trained as a mentat. Scytale reveals that the Tleilaxu once created their own KH who killed himself rather than become his opposite and this is what they hope to do to defeat Muad'dib. They also hope to learn the secret of the spice cycle and break the Atreides monopoly.
    User avatar
    Freakzilla
    Lead Singer and Driver of the Winnebego
     
    Posts: 18057
    Joined: 05 Feb 2008 01:27
    Location: Atlanta, Georgia, USA

    Re: Chapter 02

    Postby Kensai » 08 Jul 2010 16:42

    I just read this after reading POD ( :puke: ). Its a great example of the difference in writting styles between McDune and Genuine Dune. McDune would have made this scene into several chapters, needlessly portraying it from each charicter's narrow minded view point. Frank demonstrates his understanding of human psychology and lieracy skills by describing the tonal inflection of each phrase and its suitble meaning. Also again, I thought Navigators had trouble talking to regular humans? But all Edric jabber until Moheim tells him to shut up.
    Survival is the ultimate ideology Image
    Image
    User avatar
    Kensai
     
    Posts: 185
    Joined: 25 Jun 2010 11:08
    Location: Onn

    Re: Chapter 02

    Postby Demerzel » 29 Oct 2011 10:25

    I'm rereading DM currently, so I must point out the beauty of this chapter. The writing is excellent. The mindgames between RM Mohaim and Scytale are remarkable, as are his minute observations of everything, the best being the part when Scytale notes how the BG have accomodated Edric well only to point out his weakness. He then wonders what the BG have put up for him. Right at the end of the chapter, he finally figures out that it is the intelligence and charm of Irulan that was meant to show him what he cannot have.

    Truly remarkable.
    When Paul was three I found him wearing lingerie I was planning to wear for my Duke. I asked him: "How can this be?" and he answered: "For I am the Kwisatz Haderach!" I was proud since these were the first words Paul ever spoke, but now I knew for certain that my Paul was a special boy. I brought him to Duncan's room while he was busy "training" a young maidservant in the Art of Sword-Handling. My Paul shall be the best! - Tleszer
    User avatar
    Demerzel
     
    Posts: 113
    Joined: 04 Sep 2011 15:20

    Re: Chapter 02

    Postby Freakzilla » 17 Jan 2012 14:59

    Revised
    Image
    Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
    ~Pink Snowman
    User avatar
    Freakzilla
    Lead Singer and Driver of the Winnebego
     
    Posts: 18057
    Joined: 05 Feb 2008 01:27
    Location: Atlanta, Georgia, USA

    Re: Chapter 02

    Postby georgiedenbro » 18 Aug 2014 23:27

    This is certainly a more complicated and opaque scene than any I encountered in Dune just now. Even though I 'know' the events of DM well I still have to consider very carefully much of the minutiae of this scene to make sure I understand what's happening. Here is one passage I'm still not 100% sure I grasp:

    Dune Messiah Chapter 02 wrote:"The question is one of powers and how they may be used," Scytale said, moving closer to the Guildsman's tank. "We of the Tleilaxu believe that in all the universe there is only the insatiable appetite of matter, that energy is the only true solid. And energy learns. Hear me well, Princess: energy learns. This, we call power."


    For now I think this means that while individuals and particular institutions die and pass on, movements, plans and causes can persist and even gain momentum with time. An individual can't modify the course of his life much, perhaps, based on how he began and what he had available in terms of learning and resources, but a movement (such as the BG, the BT, etc) can adapt and change over time in order to overcome various obstacles that might crush an individual.

    My favorite thing in this chapter is not only Scytale's cleverness, but also in his ability to subtly show that the other members are trapped and to show each of them the way out. I'll try to quickly lay out my understanding of this:

    Irulan: Scytale alerts her to the trap in which she may either accept allegiance or else be shut out of Edric's protection and be exposed to Muad'dib. Her escape: She may choose to give up her hopes in the one thing she won't give up - fathering a royal dynasty.

    Muad'dib: At the text suggests, Muad'dib may find his escape by learning it from Hayt. I won't discuss here what I believe that entails.

    Edric: Scytale teaches him bluntly what Muad'dib said previously about the Guild: that any power they possess is nullified by the parasitic relationship they have with those they wish to exert power over. Any two groups that need each other cannot threaten each other; this shows Edric the weakness both of his power within the group, as well as the weakness of the Guild in general. Muad'dib exploited this weakness to bring the Guild to its knees. The escape from parasitic bondage always is the choice to avoid the safe course and to allow change. Edric regains his power within the group by finally relinquishing the power he thought he had over it.

    Mohiam: She began by underestimating Scytale; after she realizes this she overcompensates by perhaps overestimating him, or being overly concerned with his capabilities. She learns the way to escape his tricks and mind games: to ignore him altogether as an object of attention and to focus on the others in the group as Scytale directs her to do. As he is a physical and mental mimic and has the power of sympatico, she can use him to see into the intentions of the others, and by studying them to see into his own intentions. Thus he teaches her that the way to deal with a Face Dancer is to examine the situation rather than the individual, the latter being the BG's typical approach to analysis. This same weakness in the BG is why they didn't know how to overcome the KH; they thought of how to defeat the individual, whereas the BT knew that the key was to instead focus on the situation and relationships related to that individual. Wisdom through the learning of many minds and faces, rather than focusing on just one as the BG did for 90 generations, in vain. When Mohiam realizes some of this she goes along with him so much that she almost begins acting as his accomplice in order to learn his lesson.

    I have to assume that Scytale is functioning as the ringleader of this scene primarily as a way for Frank to give us a proper introduction to another major faction without resorting to exposition. But perhaps Scytale's show of superiority in dominating the other members in the conversation is another way of him letting them know a weakness inherent in the Tleilaxu: that they really do consider themselves superior to others, and in this way they run the risk of losing perspective and underestimating others.
    "um-m-m-ah-h-h-hm-m-m-m!"
    georgiedenbro
     
    Posts: 652
    Joined: 11 Jun 2014 13:56
    Location: Montreal, Canada


    Return to ˱

    Who is online

    Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests