Chapter 21

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Freakzilla
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Chapter 21

Postby Freakzilla » 12 Jun 2012 11:08

The assumption that humans exist within an essentially impermanent universe,
taken as an operational precept, demands that the intellect become a totally
aware balancing instrument. But the intellect cannot react thus without
involving the entire organism. Such an organism may be recognized by its
burning, driving behavior. And thus it is with a society treated as organism.
But here we encounter an old inertia. Societies move to the goading of ancient,
reactive impulses. They demand permanence. Any attempt to display the universe
of impermanence arouses rejection patterns, fear, anger, and despair. Then how
do we explain the acceptance of prescience? Simply: the giver of prescient
visions, because he speaks of an absolute (permanent) realization, may be
greeted with joy by humankind even while predicting the most dire events.

-The Book of Leto, After Harq al-Ada

Alia is meeting with Idaho, whom she had to call back from Tabr, and Irulan. The Fremen tribes of letter signed by all the naibs stating they want Jessica reinstated into the Council. Alia believes The Preacher has gone off-planet. Idaho wonders how The Preacher knew Paul's secret sign to summon him, he warns Alia to be careful, half the planet believes he's Paul. Alia believes Jessica is plotting against her. They decide the Guild wouldn't openly act against them but would secretly help their enemies. The Sisterhood would act through the Landsraad. Idaho points out that CHOAM has had high activity trading in accountants, obviously to hide spice stockpiles. They most likely are trying to break the spice monopoly by starting the cycle on another planet but Irulan assures them it's not Salusa Secundus. Duncan can tell by the way Alia acts that she is possessed and under some ancestor's control. Alia is paranoid that there will be an assassination attempt on her but Duncan secretly believes it is the twins who are in danger. Duncan has a vision of the twins crouched in rocks being raked by giant claws. He warns Alia to have all imports of live animals stopped.
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MuaB'Beep
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Re: Chapter 21

Postby MuaB'Beep » 14 Jan 2015 08:42

I don't know but I think Frank Herbert made a mistake in this chapter. Duncan Idaho mentiones Piter de Vries as a Harkonnen mentat dying in the end with dignity - while I think he really meant to write that about Thufir Hawat (at least in the polish version). Piter died by a accident not accepting death really - can someone confirm it?

I found this:

Twisted mentats? The Tleilaxu persisted in this hoax, obviously. As a mentat
himself, Idaho knew the fragile insecurity of Tleilaxu twisting. Great Houses
which bought such mentats hoped to control them absolutely. Impossible! Even
Piter de Vries, who'd served the Harkonnens in their assault on House Atreides,
had maintained his own essential dignity, accepting death rather than surrender
his inner core of selfdom at the end.

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Re: Chapter 21

Postby Freakzilla » 14 Jan 2015 09:09

All I can think of is that maybe FH had a different end for Piter that was edited but missed this. I don't think he could have been refering to Hawat, he wasn't twisted.
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MuaB'Beep
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Re: Chapter 21

Postby MuaB'Beep » 14 Jan 2015 13:02

Freakzilla wrote:All I can think of is that maybe FH had a different end for Piter that was edited but missed this. I don't think he could have been refering to Hawat, he wasn't twisted.


I think he is really refering to Hawat - he just mentions that twisted mentats aren't really that twisted, as he knew this by himself not that Hawat was twisted. It just bothers me that in so many years nobody thought about it - maybe I could not fully understand this paragraph as english is jsut my third language. Maybe this was in some sort intentional because otherwise Frank Herbert was really obsessive with the details but this could just slip his mind - but it is really strange to confuse Thufir with Piter.

I hope Bobo & Hack will not find this topic because surely they will write another trilogy why Duncan said that sentence about Piter getting resurrected and having a lot of different adventures with Wayku and Jongleurs sailing around the world stabbing people.

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Re: Chapter 21

Postby georgiedenbro » 14 Jan 2015 15:24

MuaB'Beep wrote:
Freakzilla wrote:All I can think of is that maybe FH had a different end for Piter that was edited but missed this. I don't think he could have been refering to Hawat, he wasn't twisted.


I think he is really refering to Hawat - he just mentions that twisted mentats aren't really that twisted, as he knew this by himself not that Hawat was twisted. It just bothers me that in so many years nobody thought about it - maybe I could not fully understand this paragraph as english is jsut my third language. Maybe this was in some sort intentional because otherwise Frank Herbert was really obsessive with the details but this could just slip his mind - but it is really strange to confuse Thufir with Piter.

I hope Bobo & Hack will not find this topic because surely they will write another trilogy why Duncan said that sentence about Piter getting resurrected and having a lot of different adventures with Wayku and Jongleurs sailing around the world stabbing people.


The content of the quote doesn't make sense for it to mean Thufir. I noticed this passage in my read-though just now but didn't make a mental note to say something about it. Good catch. The best explanation I can offer is that Piter did have the internal dignity mentioned, even to excess and I'm somewhat convinced that he was going to attempt to kill the Baron and take control of House Harkonnen for himself (perhaps by using Feyd as a puppet). He knew the Baron would kill him first if he didn't escape, and so we might call it an act of dignity to remain around the Baron until the end and not to flee for his life. I guess in that sense it might mean he accepted whatever fate would befall him by risking it and staying in the hopes of 'winning' in the end. But yeah, he obviously didn't accept being poisoned and killed at that moment specifically.
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