Doing research on Dune, need help!

    Can't find the appropriate forum for your topic? Post it here!

Moderators: Omphalos, Freakzilla, ᴶᵛᵀᴬ

Moonleaf
Posts: 48
Joined: 21 Sep 2011 07:41

Doing research on Dune, need help!

Postby Moonleaf » 21 Sep 2011 07:56

Hello, I am in the process of designing a board game, for which I decided the mechanics can depict the world of Dune formidably. The problem: I have no clue about the world :P I watched the old movie 10 years ago, never read books or saw the mini-series, thus I only know a few based on hearing others discussing about it and a short research in Wikipedia.

I started watching the mini-series as research, but an active community such as yours can probably help me in no time!

I decided to use the Fremen, Atreides, Harkonen and Spacing Guild for now, with Corrino and Bene Jesserit a possible appearance in an expansion.

For starters, I'd like you to help me with each factions' characteristics.

Some I have noticed myself by watching 1/4th of the first mini-series, which need editing and additions:

Atreides
Bravery
Honor
Valuing human life
Protection
Organization
Noble Blood
Loyalty

Harkonen:
Revenge
Wealth
Ending of human life
Physical perfection
Unholy alliances

Fremen
Arrakis lore
Faith in the Messiah
Organization in small communities and groups
Recycling
Survival with few

Spacing Guild
Financial control
Money create money
Blackmailing (mostly economic)
Deleted: Military elite

All of the above will be represented in the game mechanically, so the more accurate the descriptions, the better the representation of the theme :)
Last edited by Moonleaf on 21 Sep 2011 08:25, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Freakzilla
Lead Singer and Driver of the Winnebego
Posts: 18257
Joined: 05 Feb 2008 01:27
Location: Atlanta, Georgia, USA
Contact:

Re: Doing research on Dune, need help!

Postby Freakzilla » 21 Sep 2011 07:58

The most obvious thing that sticks out to me is that the Spacing Guild has NOTHING to do with the military except transport.
Image
Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
~Pink Snowman

Moonleaf
Posts: 48
Joined: 21 Sep 2011 07:41

Re: Doing research on Dune, need help!

Postby Moonleaf » 21 Sep 2011 08:11

Freakzilla wrote:The most obvious thing that sticks out to me is that the Spacing Guild has NOTHING to do with the military except transport.


Most helpful, thank you.

In my game there are three different ways to use in order to obtain Spice: Economic, Political and Military. Each faction starts with 2 'units' in one of the three ways, 1 'unit' in another and 0 'units' in the last one, which is their weakest.

How does this sound:
Atreides: 2 Military, 1 Political
Harkonen: 2 Political, 1 Military
Spacing Guild: 2 Economic, 1 Political
Fremen: 1 Economic, 1 Political, 1 Military (them being a balanced faction)

Please give me additional information and add more characteristics to the list :)

EDIT: Maybe Spacing Guild should be 3 Economic? This fits if it has no political pulls, no ability to manipulate laws and pull strings, no weight in local officers' decisions and doesn't take advantage of corruption

User avatar
lotek
Posts: 5777
Joined: 28 Jul 2009 08:33

Re: Doing research on Dune, need help!

Postby lotek » 21 Sep 2011 09:16

watch out for the HLP !
Spice is the worm's gonads.

User avatar
JustSomeGuy
Posts: 791
Joined: 26 Feb 2011 03:02

Re: Doing research on Dune, need help!

Postby JustSomeGuy » 21 Sep 2011 11:13

Maybe you should read the books. What's the rush?
I bring nothing to the table.

User avatar
JustSomeGuy
Posts: 791
Joined: 26 Feb 2011 03:02

Re: Doing research on Dune, need help!

Postby JustSomeGuy » 21 Sep 2011 11:15

Frank Herbert's books.
I bring nothing to the table.

User avatar
Omphalos
Inglorious Bastard
Posts: 6677
Joined: 05 Feb 2008 11:07
Location: The Mighty Central Valley of California
Contact:

Re: Doing research on Dune, need help!

Postby Omphalos » 21 Sep 2011 13:29

So, you want to write something based on Dune, but you don't want to read the original books? But watching TV shows counts as "research." Hmmmmmm.

Well, it's certainly been done before. Just google "Anderson, Kevin J." and you will see the high quality product he puts out.

On second though, is this KJA? Or maybe BH? Finally joined the web did you?

Seriously man (boy?); read the damn books and put some thought into what you are trying to do.

User avatar
Freakzilla
Lead Singer and Driver of the Winnebego
Posts: 18257
Joined: 05 Feb 2008 01:27
Location: Atlanta, Georgia, USA
Contact:

Re: Doing research on Dune, need help!

Postby Freakzilla » 21 Sep 2011 13:41

Or just base it on the TV miniseries.
Image
Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
~Pink Snowman

User avatar
Serkanner
Administrator
Posts: 2870
Joined: 17 Feb 2008 18:44
Location: Den Haag - The Netherlands

Re: Doing research on Dune, need help!

Postby Serkanner » 21 Sep 2011 13:41

Omphalos wrote:So, you want to write something based on Dune, but you don't want to read the original books? But watching TV shows counts as "research." Hmmmmmm.

Well, it's certainly been done before. Just google "Anderson, Kevin J." and you will see the high quality product he puts out.

On second though, is this KJA? Or maybe BH? Finally joined the web did you?

Seriously man (boy?); read the damn books and put some thought into what you are trying to do.


Plus one. If you are serious about Dune ... read the six original novels.
"... the mystery of life isn't a problem to solve but a reality to experience."

“There is no escape—we pay for the violence of our ancestors.”

Sandrider: "Keith went to Bobo's for a weekend of drinking, watched some DVDs,
and wrote a Dune Novel."

User avatar
A Thing of Eternity
Posts: 6090
Joined: 08 Apr 2008 15:35
Location: Calgary Alberta

Re: Doing research on Dune, need help!

Postby A Thing of Eternity » 21 Sep 2011 14:29

Moonleaf wrote:How does this sound:
Atreides: 2 Military, 1 Political
Harkonen: 2 Political, 1 Military
Spacing Guild: 2 Economic, 1 Political
Fremen: 1 Economic, 1 Political, 1 Military (them being a balanced faction)

EDIT: Maybe Spacing Guild should be 3 Economic? This fits if it has no political pulls, no ability to manipulate laws and pull strings, no weight in local officers' decisions and doesn't take advantage of corruption


First off, you should DEFINITELY read at least the first book, Dune itself. Otherwise you'll be missing loads of fun stuff you could include in the game.

Here's my thoughts - NOTE: these are for if you want to be accurate to the book.

Atreides and Harkonnen are basically tied for political and military power, except that Atreides only has support of the Houses, and Harkonnen is backed by the Emperor, so I guess the way you have it works because the Harkonnen definitely do have more political power at that time (because of the Emperor's backing though they also have more military than the Atreides).

Fremen should probably be 3 military, they don't trade very much (other than bribing the Guild), and they have zero political power. What they are is the most insane fighting force in the universe.

The Guild I think is fine the way you have it. They DO actually have some political power, they just choose to pretend that they don't. If they think their spice is threatened then they will not hesitate to mess with people (as they mess with the Emperor in Dune).

I would add the Bene Gesserit as a faction though, with starting points of 3 political.
Image

User avatar
Demerzel
Posts: 113
Joined: 04 Sep 2011 15:20

Re: Doing research on Dune, need help!

Postby Demerzel » 21 Sep 2011 14:33

Moonleaf wrote:Hello, I am in the process of designing a board game, for which I decided the mechanics can depict the world of Dune formidably. The problem: I have no clue about the world :P I watched the old movie 10 years ago, never read books

Stop right there. Do that first. Just read Dune if you're lazy.

Anyone else smell troll?
When Paul was three I found him wearing lingerie I was planning to wear for my Duke. I asked him: "How can this be?" and he answered: "For I am the Kwisatz Haderach!" I was proud since these were the first words Paul ever spoke, but now I knew for certain that my Paul was a special boy. I brought him to Duncan's room while he was busy "training" a young maidservant in the Art of Sword-Handling. My Paul shall be the best! - Tleszer

User avatar
A Thing of Eternity
Posts: 6090
Joined: 08 Apr 2008 15:35
Location: Calgary Alberta

Re: Doing research on Dune, need help!

Postby A Thing of Eternity » 21 Sep 2011 14:35

Demerzel wrote:Anyone else smell troll?


No, but trying to create anything around Dune makes zero sense without reading at least the first book, especially since the movie deviates from it in such crazy ways at certain points.
Image

User avatar
Freakzilla
Lead Singer and Driver of the Winnebego
Posts: 18257
Joined: 05 Feb 2008 01:27
Location: Atlanta, Georgia, USA
Contact:

Re: Doing research on Dune, need help!

Postby Freakzilla » 21 Sep 2011 14:37

Demerzel wrote:Anyone else smell troll?


You're to new to be on troll alert... we're still watching you. :P
Image
Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
~Pink Snowman

User avatar
Demerzel
Posts: 113
Joined: 04 Sep 2011 15:20

Re: Doing research on Dune, need help!

Postby Demerzel » 21 Sep 2011 15:15

A Thing of Eternity wrote:
Demerzel wrote:Anyone else smell troll?


No, but trying to create anything around Dune makes zero sense without reading at least the first book, especially since the movie deviates from it in such crazy ways at certain points.

The movie put me off. Also, the reason I think he'd be a troll is cause WHY would anyone be inclined to make a game on Dune if he hasn't read the books? I don't see that movie inspiring anyone to such an extent.

Freakzilla wrote:
Demerzel wrote:Anyone else smell troll?


You're to new to be on troll alert... we're still watching you. :P

(no one is too new to be on troll alert) If I were a troll, I'd dislike other trolls. So you can trust me :P
When Paul was three I found him wearing lingerie I was planning to wear for my Duke. I asked him: "How can this be?" and he answered: "For I am the Kwisatz Haderach!" I was proud since these were the first words Paul ever spoke, but now I knew for certain that my Paul was a special boy. I brought him to Duncan's room while he was busy "training" a young maidservant in the Art of Sword-Handling. My Paul shall be the best! - Tleszer

User avatar
A Thing of Eternity
Posts: 6090
Joined: 08 Apr 2008 15:35
Location: Calgary Alberta

Re: Doing research on Dune, need help!

Postby A Thing of Eternity » 21 Sep 2011 15:29

Demerzel wrote:
A Thing of Eternity wrote:
Demerzel wrote:Anyone else smell troll?


No, but trying to create anything around Dune makes zero sense without reading at least the first book, especially since the movie deviates from it in such crazy ways at certain points.

The movie put me off. Also, the reason I think he'd be a troll is cause WHY would anyone be inclined to make a game on Dune if he hasn't read the books? I don't see that movie inspiring anyone to such an extent.


Though most serious fans of the book take issue with the movie, the 1984 film is a cult classic, I know lots and lots of people that loved it and have never read the book. I enjoy it myself, not really as having much of anything to do with Dune, just as a really whacky and odd film with great visuals.
Image

User avatar
Freakzilla
Lead Singer and Driver of the Winnebego
Posts: 18257
Joined: 05 Feb 2008 01:27
Location: Atlanta, Georgia, USA
Contact:

Re: Doing research on Dune, need help!

Postby Freakzilla » 21 Sep 2011 15:34

I hate it, but I own the DVD and still watch it. It may not have been a blockbuster but it inspired many to read the books.
Image
Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
~Pink Snowman

User avatar
Demerzel
Posts: 113
Joined: 04 Sep 2011 15:20

Re: Doing research on Dune, need help!

Postby Demerzel » 21 Sep 2011 15:35

I didn't enjoy the movie one bit. Maybe cause I didn't see too many movies in my childhood, and am not used to the visuals (even Star Wars put me off).

What I hated about the Dune movie were those weird guns that everyone wielded. And the freaky looking characters. I had a world of my own imagination in my mind. The movie interfered with it.
When Paul was three I found him wearing lingerie I was planning to wear for my Duke. I asked him: "How can this be?" and he answered: "For I am the Kwisatz Haderach!" I was proud since these were the first words Paul ever spoke, but now I knew for certain that my Paul was a special boy. I brought him to Duncan's room while he was busy "training" a young maidservant in the Art of Sword-Handling. My Paul shall be the best! - Tleszer

User avatar
A Thing of Eternity
Posts: 6090
Joined: 08 Apr 2008 15:35
Location: Calgary Alberta

Re: Doing research on Dune, need help!

Postby A Thing of Eternity » 21 Sep 2011 15:40

Oh yeah, as a Dune fan it's a piece of junk, but as a whacky movie it's a masterpiece. An accidental masterpiece, because it's shittyness is part of what makes it hilariously fun to watch though!
Image

User avatar
Demerzel
Posts: 113
Joined: 04 Sep 2011 15:20

Re: Doing research on Dune, need help!

Postby Demerzel » 21 Sep 2011 15:47

I laughed at the depiction of Piter. I mean really laughed.
When Paul was three I found him wearing lingerie I was planning to wear for my Duke. I asked him: "How can this be?" and he answered: "For I am the Kwisatz Haderach!" I was proud since these were the first words Paul ever spoke, but now I knew for certain that my Paul was a special boy. I brought him to Duncan's room while he was busy "training" a young maidservant in the Art of Sword-Handling. My Paul shall be the best! - Tleszer

User avatar
A Thing of Eternity
Posts: 6090
Joined: 08 Apr 2008 15:35
Location: Calgary Alberta

Re: Doing research on Dune, need help!

Postby A Thing of Eternity » 21 Sep 2011 15:51

Demerzel wrote:I laughed at the depiction of Piter. I mean really laughed.


Terrible indeed! Lots of it was terrible, nothing worse than when it rains at the end of course!
Image

User avatar
JustSomeGuy
Posts: 791
Joined: 26 Feb 2011 03:02

Re: Doing research on Dune, need help!

Postby JustSomeGuy » 21 Sep 2011 17:43

You know what? I loved that movie way back when. I don't think I've ever seen it the whole way through, but I really liked the parts I did see. Maybe it's because I had never read the book and had never seen anything quite like that movie. Not sure what I would think of it now... :think:


A Thing of Eternity wrote:Terrible indeed! Lots of it was terrible, nothing worse than when it rains at the end of course!


I loved that ending! It was so awesome to me back then. I thought to myself, "Holy shit! This guy's the real deal!" Well, I didn't think that, exactly, but you know I mean. Remember, I was just an impressionable child and I had never read the book. To me, that movie was fucking awesome.
I bring nothing to the table.

User avatar
A Thing of Eternity
Posts: 6090
Joined: 08 Apr 2008 15:35
Location: Calgary Alberta

Re: Doing research on Dune, need help!

Postby A Thing of Eternity » 21 Sep 2011 17:45

JustSomeGuy wrote:You know what? I loved that movie way back when. I don't think I've ever seen it the whole way through, but I really liked the parts I did see. Maybe it's because I had never read the book and had never seen anything quite like that movie. Not sure what I would think of it now... :think:


A Thing of Eternity wrote:Terrible indeed! Lots of it was terrible, nothing worse than when it rains at the end of course!


I loved that ending! It was so awesome to me back then. I thought to myself, "Holy shit! This guy's the real deal!" Well, I didn't think that, exactly, but you know I mean. Remember, I was just an impressionable child and I had never read the book. To me, that movie was fucking awesome.


I also saw it before reading the book so I had the same impression. Luckily it'd been a while since I saw it before I read the book, but it still messed with me a fair bit, I kept waiting for the sound-guns!
Image

User avatar
Nekhrun
Icelandic Wiener
Posts: 3293
Joined: 10 Feb 2008 16:27

Re: Doing research on Dune, need help!

Postby Nekhrun » 21 Sep 2011 18:27

Moonleaf wrote:Hello, I am in the process of designing a board game, for which I decided the mechanics can depict the world of Dune formidably. The problem: I have no clue about the world :P I watched the old movie 10 years ago, never read books or saw the mini-series, thus I only know a few based on hearing others discussing about it and a short research in Wikipedia.

I started watching the mini-series as research, but an active community such as yours can probably help me in no time!

Huh, sounds dumb. Maybe you should learn to spell the words before you use the marker on what is certain to be an awesome board game. Anyway, you should really go ask this question over at the official forum. When you're there, ask for Fantomas or arnoldo. They'll be more of a help then we could be.
"If he was here to discuss Dune, he sure as hell picked a dumb way to do it." -Omphalos :character-cookiemonster:

Happy Memorial Day everyone! -James C. Harwood

"Three of my videos have over 100 views."
"Over 500 views for my 'Open Question' video." -Nebiros

User avatar
merkin muffley
Posts: 1584
Joined: 23 Apr 2010 15:18
Location: War Room

Re: Doing research on Dune, need help!

Postby merkin muffley » 21 Sep 2011 18:47

A Thing of Eternity wrote:
Demerzel wrote:I laughed at the depiction of Piter. I mean really laughed.


Terrible indeed! Lots of it was terrible, nothing worse than when it rains at the end of course!


The movie is awful, but I've seen it many, many times, and I kind of like Piter. It's probably because I like Brad Dourif. It was a ridiculous depiction, but I thought it was kind of interesting. I thought Leto was a lot worse. And in terms of funny, how about fucking Thufir Hawat, babbling, and shining a lightbulb in his face?

We watched it a lot, stoned, in college, at four in the morning. I can recite Leto's "Sleeper Must Awaken" speach in Jurgen Prochnow's accent from memory.
"I must admit, you have an astonishingly good idea there, Doctor...."

User avatar
Freakzilla
Lead Singer and Driver of the Winnebego
Posts: 18257
Joined: 05 Feb 2008 01:27
Location: Atlanta, Georgia, USA
Contact:

Re: Doing research on Dune, need help!

Postby Freakzilla » 21 Sep 2011 20:58

I was personally embarrassed by that film.
Image
Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
~Pink Snowman