Ixians and Feudalism

Image
    The people and their technology

Moderators: ᴶᵛᵀᴬ, Omphalos, Freakzilla

User avatar
dunecat10193
Posts: 25
Joined: 13 Mar 2012 14:58

Ixians and Feudalism

Postby dunecat10193 » 13 Jul 2012 15:55

As the topic states, i wanna know what people believe to be the the reason the Ixians exist outside the Old Empire's feudal system. I recently read how Ix is known as a fringe planet so i could see them practically not being part of the Empire like other planets are. Though this fringe planet idea i never heard of before, and i know KJA fondled the Ixian balls briefly so...

And a side note, i could see the Tleilaxu having a figure head house, though that is a passing thought that ive done zero research on...

User avatar
Freakzilla
Lead Singer and Driver of the Winnebego
Posts: 18133
Joined: 05 Feb 2008 01:27
Location: Atlanta, Georgia, USA
Contact:

Re: Ixians and Feudalism

Postby Freakzilla » 13 Jul 2012 21:05

Because they violate the tenants of the Butlerian Jihad.

They are not a Great House but a confederation.
Image
Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
~Pink Snowman

User avatar
dunecat10193
Posts: 25
Joined: 13 Mar 2012 14:58

Re: Ixians and Feudalism

Postby dunecat10193 » 14 Jul 2012 08:58

Well yeah, but i mean why that is allowed. I suppose lust for their technology is the easiest answer. Thouh them being a fringe planet entertains me more...

User avatar
Freakzilla
Lead Singer and Driver of the Winnebego
Posts: 18133
Joined: 05 Feb 2008 01:27
Location: Atlanta, Georgia, USA
Contact:

Re: Ixians and Feudalism

Postby Freakzilla » 14 Jul 2012 11:02

Three -- Planetary feudalism remained in constant danger from a large
technical class, but the effects of the Butlerian Jihad continued as a damper on
technological excesses. Ixians, Tleilaxu, and a few scattered outer planets were
the only possible threat in this regard, and they were planet-vulnerable to the
combined wrath of the rest of the Imperium. The Butlerian Jihad would not be
undone. Mechanized warfare required a large technical class. The Atreides
Imperium had channeled this force into other pursuits. No large technical class
existed unwatched. And the Empire remained safely feudalist, naturally, since
that was the best social form for spreading over widely dispersed wild frontiers
-- new planets.

~Children of Dune

That was Hayt computing why House Corrino wouldn't nuke Arrakis while all the Atreides were there, BTW.
Image
Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
~Pink Snowman

User avatar
lotek
Posts: 5735
Joined: 28 Jul 2009 08:33

Re: Ixians and Feudalism

Postby lotek » 14 Jul 2012 12:05

Isn't there something about the need for some form of transgression of the Butlerian Jihad ?
The Imperium would let Ix tread that fine legal line because it still required someone to do the deed while taking the rap if things went pear shaped.
The calculators they created were considered by some to be a bit too close to the edge but the people that used them were more than happy to have someone provide an explanation that allowed for them to not breach the termps of the BJihad.

Reminds me of what Paul tells Gurney, when they use atomics to blow up the Shield Wall, about the hair splitters up there will jump on the opportunity to not have to intervene or something like that.
Spice is the worm's gonads.

User avatar
dunecat10193
Posts: 25
Joined: 13 Mar 2012 14:58

Re: Ixians and Feudalism

Postby dunecat10193 » 14 Jul 2012 12:08

To Freak's quote: Thats exactly what i was wondering. Thats really interesting cause the Empire just expected the Ixians to both not invent anything that incredible, and do anything stupid.
Also, it sounds like if Jessica didnt go mess anything up, that those fringe planets living outside of the Empire's system would inevitably become an opposing force. The Tleilaxu would of course be at the center of that.
Last edited by dunecat10193 on 14 Jul 2012 12:10, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
dunecat10193
Posts: 25
Joined: 13 Mar 2012 14:58

Re: Ixians and Feudalism

Postby dunecat10193 » 14 Jul 2012 12:09

[quote="lotek"]Isn't there something about the need for some form of transgression of the Butlerian Jihad ?
The Imperium would let Ix tread that fine legal line because it still required someone to do the deed while taking the rap if things went pear shaped.

That idea is fucking sick...

User avatar
Freakzilla
Lead Singer and Driver of the Winnebego
Posts: 18133
Joined: 05 Feb 2008 01:27
Location: Atlanta, Georgia, USA
Contact:

Re: Ixians and Feudalism

Postby Freakzilla » 14 Jul 2012 12:27

What calculators???

Ix and Tleilax (Richese, too?) were outside the Imperium. They were allowed to persist because the technology was needed. The idea was that if their technology became a threat, the combined forces of the Landsraad could handle it.

I don't understand what the question is.
Image
Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
~Pink Snowman

User avatar
dunecat10193
Posts: 25
Joined: 13 Mar 2012 14:58

Re: Ixians and Feudalism

Postby dunecat10193 » 14 Jul 2012 13:30

It wasn't as much a question as a medium for discussion over something that likely has no definite answer.

When the Ixians first began emerging technologically, it must have been quite a culture shock to the Imperium. There must have been much irrational fear over them, regardless if the leaders of the Imperium and the Bene Gesserit deemed them useful.
Though i guess as long as those two forces would like something, they get it.

They decided that rather than have a house govern them, or any other body govern them, they let them maintain a confederacy. I can see this as a means of manipulation. Rather than trying to control a single governing body that could likely go crazy with technological power, they keep Ix practically competing with itself.
This view of Ix makes them part of the Imperium, possibly even a planned society started by the BG.

My other idea is that Ix is a society almost resisting the Imperium, hating the prime tenant of the Butlerian Jihad because the conditions of the machine take over were more the fault of people. Thus Ix is a fringe planet, and barely part of the Imperium. That would explain why they would need to bother explaining that the Landsraad could take down Ix, something that is implied with any society in the Dune universe.

The obvious answer is probably some middle ground between the two, but regardless however Ix managed to bypass the Imperium isnof interest to me.

User avatar
Freakzilla
Lead Singer and Driver of the Winnebego
Posts: 18133
Joined: 05 Feb 2008 01:27
Location: Atlanta, Georgia, USA
Contact:

Re: Ixians and Feudalism

Postby Freakzilla » 14 Jul 2012 13:47

What makes you think Ix appeared after the BJ?
Image
Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
~Pink Snowman

User avatar
dunecat10193
Posts: 25
Joined: 13 Mar 2012 14:58

Re: Ixians and Feudalism

Postby dunecat10193 » 14 Jul 2012 14:01

Hehe, touche.
During the time of the jihad, it was common knowledge to not make thinking machines, or any technology that could be used to the thinking machines advantage. They could have developed appropriate technology during, and thousands of years after the jihad, and developed a black market for technology just as any society would develop a black market. Their market just dissolved into their culture overtime.

But to answer your question, i was just assuming that the jihad, out of blind fear, would purge technology too mindlessly for a society like Ix to survive. Though they could have been any type of society at the time. They had a lot of time to develop.

User avatar
Freakzilla
Lead Singer and Driver of the Winnebego
Posts: 18133
Joined: 05 Feb 2008 01:27
Location: Atlanta, Georgia, USA
Contact:

Re: Ixians and Feudalism

Postby Freakzilla » 14 Jul 2012 18:42

Obviously, they survived because they were on the fringe.
Image
Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
~Pink Snowman

User avatar
dunecat10193
Posts: 25
Joined: 13 Mar 2012 14:58

Re: Ixians and Feudalism

Postby dunecat10193 » 14 Jul 2012 23:53

Well possibly, but you also gotta think that what fringe space is during the time of the Empire was different during the time of the BJ and before. Pre guild they flew crazy slow, so its likely that Ix hadnt been reached yet.
Though Ix could have been a society beforehand, possibly runaway scientists.
I could see the Guild being payed ridiculous amounts of money to fuel a technology conspiracy that became Ix over 10,000.
But im getting beside the point. I think its possible Ix was formed after the BJ.

User avatar
Freakzilla
Lead Singer and Driver of the Winnebego
Posts: 18133
Joined: 05 Feb 2008 01:27
Location: Atlanta, Georgia, USA
Contact:

Re: Ixians and Feudalism

Postby Freakzilla » 15 Jul 2012 00:25

Why do you insist on thinking Ix came after the BJ?
Image
Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
~Pink Snowman

User avatar
dunecat10193
Posts: 25
Joined: 13 Mar 2012 14:58

Re: Ixians and Feudalism

Postby dunecat10193 » 15 Jul 2012 01:50

What do you mean? I explained why i could see it as a possibility, but i dint rightly believe one over the other anyway.
Do you have a reason it would be ruled out as a possibility?

User avatar
Serkanner
Posts: 2823
Joined: 17 Feb 2008 18:44
Location: Den Haag - The Netherlands

Re: Ixians and Feudalism

Postby Serkanner » 15 Jul 2012 04:59

dunecat10193 wrote:What do you mean? I explained why i could see it as a possibility, but i dint rightly believe one over the other anyway.
Do you have a reason it would be ruled out as a possibility?


Anything is possible (flying pink elephants). Where in the books have you found input for your thoughts (quotes)?
"... the mystery of life isn't a problem to solve but a reality to experience."

“There is no escape—we pay for the violence of our ancestors.”

Sandrider: "Keith went to Bobo's for a weekend of drinking, watched some DVDs,
and wrote a Dune Novel."

User avatar
lotek
Posts: 5735
Joined: 28 Jul 2009 08:33

Re: Ixians and Feudalism

Postby lotek » 15 Jul 2012 11:05

Freakzilla wrote:What calculators???


ow crap...
:tissue2:
Spice is the worm's gonads.

User avatar
dunecat10193
Posts: 25
Joined: 13 Mar 2012 14:58

Re: Ixians and Feudalism

Postby dunecat10193 » 15 Jul 2012 16:17

In the quote Freak posted, it says that the societies in fringe space (Ix, Tleilaxu, and whoever else) ae able to exist outside the normal parameters of the Empire.
Pre-guild, it is likely that what the Empire considers fringe space had not been reached by the conventional form of space travel. (Which is "a snails crawl" to normal travel)
Therefore if Ix did exist before the BJ, they would be so out of the way that the known universe rarely spoke with them, or even knew they existed. They could have been discovered only after the guild was formed.
It is also possible that the Ixians were a pre-BJ society that simply occupied Ix once such a planet was able to be accessed.
But on the other hand, the known universe may not have expanded as vastly as i am imagining it would after the Guild.
I dont have any specific quotes covering this because this is not a topic the books discuss, hence why i brought it up.

User avatar
Freakzilla
Lead Singer and Driver of the Winnebego
Posts: 18133
Joined: 05 Feb 2008 01:27
Location: Atlanta, Georgia, USA
Contact:

Re: Ixians and Feudalism

Postby Freakzilla » 15 Jul 2012 18:29

I believe the Holtzman technology must have come before the Guild, so people could have traveled just as fast, if they wanted to take the risk.
Image
Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
~Pink Snowman

D Pope
Posts: 1500
Joined: 14 May 2010 14:11
Location: Grubville

Re: Ixians and Feudalism

Postby D Pope » 15 Jul 2012 20:21

Freakzilla wrote:I believe the Holtzman technology must have come before the Guild, so people could have traveled just as fast, if they wanted to take the risk.

:clap:
Leto II is gone for good, except for OM. The "pearl" was just that; a miniscule portion of what Leto was, and not a compressed version of the whole. The pearl that the worms have do not make them Leto, or in any way similar to him.
-Omphalos

User avatar
Visigoth
Posts: 116
Joined: 12 May 2011 03:23

Re: Ixians and Feudalism

Postby Visigoth » 15 Jul 2012 21:26

A question please...is somewhat on topic, I think?

In Dune..
Doesn't everyone in the Duniverse comes from Earth?
ImageImageImage

User avatar
Freakzilla
Lead Singer and Driver of the Winnebego
Posts: 18133
Joined: 05 Feb 2008 01:27
Location: Atlanta, Georgia, USA
Contact:

Re: Ixians and Feudalism

Postby Freakzilla » 15 Jul 2012 21:33

The human race originated on Earth, yes.
Image
Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
~Pink Snowman

User avatar
Visigoth
Posts: 116
Joined: 12 May 2011 03:23

Re: Ixians and Feudalism

Postby Visigoth » 15 Jul 2012 21:47

So...
Did the Ixians and Richese inhabitants came from Earth also?
ImageImageImage

User avatar
dunecat10193
Posts: 25
Joined: 13 Mar 2012 14:58

Re: Ixians and Feudalism

Postby dunecat10193 » 16 Jul 2012 00:31

Well i believe it was in God Emporer that Leto said people travelled across space at a snails crawl before the guild. And if they did have Holtzman technology, then that would still make distance travel a challenge being the risk.
Do you believe that the Guild monopolized something that was already easily accessed?

User avatar
dunecat10193
Posts: 25
Joined: 13 Mar 2012 14:58

Re: Ixians and Feudalism

Postby dunecat10193 » 16 Jul 2012 00:40

Also, you talking like the pre machine revolt society has that travel? Cause i could totally see that. It makes the empire after the BJ much more of a "dark age" like era.


Return to “˱”