Dune and Star Wars

[Durvi]

Imagine next revolutionary book of KJA - Dune chronologicaly transformed into SW Like after SOD there will be thinking machines again, hyperspace travel is already almost invented, Bene Gesseritians can become Jedis... So much possibilities. George Lucas is able to do everything, so if you will read taht he's going to buy rights for Dune, write me and I gonna kill him. Seriously

But, of course, you just have to love SW

[merkin muffley]

Oh, I don't know. I thought that Christal Yodelson (Hayden Crystalson? Crying Shamerslum? Hagar Corriblesome? Whatever the fuck his name is!) kid's performance was pretty stunning.

I mean, I facepalmed myself pretty much into a coma watching him.

You're just bitter because he doesn't like sand...

[SandChigger]

"Sand whatever", you mean?

[Superdog]

As some one else has said one of Lucas's main influences was Kurosawa films. The Hidden Fortress contains a tall skinny peasant and a short fat peasant that wander around the story and get in trouble, the stated inspiration for R2-D2 and C-3PO. I don't really seen any valid Dune comparisons beyond the superficial.

[Superdog]

As some one else has said one of Lucas's main influences was Kurosawa films. The Hidden Fortress contains a tall skinny peasant and a short fat peasant that wander around the story and get in trouble, the stated inspiration for R2-D2 and C-3PO. I don't really seen any valid Dune comparisons beyond the superficial.

Some the connections are a pretty big stretch.

Han Solo = Duncan Idaho. Han has a bit of moral ambiguity to him (unlike Duncan) in Star Wars. He also serves as romantic foil to Luke, ie their both competing for Leia's affections. (Unlike Duncan) (and ew... he's your sister dude.) He's also one of the main characters, where as Duncan dies at the end of the first act.

Gurney=Obi-wan. They are both mentors, yes. So are Thufir and Dr. Yueh. Gurney is a warrior-troubadour, Obi-wan is a warrior mystic. Gurney is only a mentor for the first act, where as Obi wan accompanies Luke throughout the entirety of Star Wars.

Emperor Palpatine= Emperor Shaddam. Shaddam is in, like what ten pages? He never really comes across as evil per se, nor is he really ever the major antagonist. On the other hand, Palpatine is the Big Bad Ultra Evil and is the mastermind behind all three movies. He's also an evil wizard type character.

Leia=Alia. Both are the main character's sister, and the name is similar. The similarities pretty much end there.

Their Parents die. Pretty much every character in fantastic fiction is an orphan. Observe like 90% of super heroes.

Evil Parentage. A staple of hero stories, predates Dune at the very least.

Apparently the early drafts were much more derivative, but I think it's safe to say the final product was pretty far past Dune.

[merkin muffley]

As some one else has said one of Lucas's main influences was Kurosawa films. The Hidden Fortress contains a tall skinny peasant and a short fat peasant that wander around the story and get in trouble, the stated inspiration for R2-D2 and C-3PO. I don't really seen any valid Dune comparisons beyond the superficial.

Yeah, Kurosawa is a huge influence, especially in a lot of Lucas's editing. All of those wipe transitions come from Kurosawa, mainly. I think Lucas would like to say that Kurosawa was a big influence on his directing, except that Kurosawa got some great performances out of his actors and, well, just look at that kiss scene between Padme and Anakin. I've seen better acting in pornos. Definitely better chemistry.

[SandChigger]

Ooogie. The thought of Hayseedledon and what's-her-name going at the dirty in a real porno...

[DuneFishUK]

All of those wipe transitions come from Kurosawa, mainly.

Flash Gordon had them too!

[inhuien]

All of those wipe transitions come from Kurosawa, mainly.

Flash Gordon had them too!

Now you're being coy.

[merkin muffley]

All of those wipe transitions come from Kurosawa, mainly.

Flash Gordon had them too!

Touche. I had a feeling that something like that was true, and that I was going to get into trouble saying "mainly." I haven't really seen Flash Gordon, but obviously Flash Gordon is huge for George Lucas.


C3P0, R2, and Princess Leia all heavily influenced by Hidden Fortress.

[Durvi]

And Jabba The Hutt must come from Leto II.
Haven't you been imagining the Godlike Emperor like Hutt crimelord whole time during reading?

[MrFlibble]

And Jabba The Hutt must come from Leto II.

Only that GEoD was published after Jabba's first appearance in the films, no? (I'm not sure, was Jabba present in Episode IV from the beginning, or did Lucas add him later?)

[TheDukester]

Jabba = 1983 (Return of the Jedi); GEoD = 1981.

Which still proves nothing; I'm just throwing it out there. I'm not a big fan of the whole fanboy-esque "Hey, X is a rip-off of Y" argument. Taken to the extreme, then everything is just a rip-off of everything else that came before it chronologically. It's silly.

[Freakzilla]

Jabba = 1983 (Return of the Jedi); GEoD = 1981.

Which still proves nothing; I'm just throwing it out there. I'm not a big fan of the whole fanboy-esque "Hey, X is a rip-off of Y" argument. Taken to the extreme, then everything is just a rip-off of everything else that came before it chronologically. It's silly.

Whether something is plagiarized or a homage depends on if you like it or not.

[merkin muffley]

It might've been the caterpillar from Alice in Wonderland. They all hung out together. And Jabba also went after a human female, he just had a very different method of courting her.

[Freakzilla]

It might've been the caterpillar from Alice in Wonderland. They all hung out together. And Jabba also went after a human female, he just had a very different method of courting her.

Never, ever pass up an opportunity for a picture like that...



I never imagined Hwi looking that good.

[SandRider]

And Jabba The Hutt must come from Leto II.

Only that GEoD was published after Jabba's first appearance in the films, no? (I'm not sure, was Jabba present in Episode IV from the beginning, or did Lucas add him later?)

since Frank says he had the basic overview of the first three books in his mind when he began
writing Dune, up to Leto II taking the sandtrout, I'm sure he had thought about what Leto was
going to evolve into ... certainly by publication of Children in 76 ....

[MrFlibble]

Jabba = 1983 (Return of the Jedi); GEoD = 1981.

Which still proves nothing; I'm just throwing it out there. I'm not a big fan of the whole fanboy-esque "Hey, X is a rip-off of Y" argument. Taken to the extreme, then everything is just a rip-off of everything else that came before it chronologically. It's silly.

I agree that the argument about what is a rip-off and what isn't is pointless, still thanks for clearing up the chronology (as I said, I wasn't sure about Jabba's appearance in Episode IV), since I've encountered this parallel between Jabba and Leto II being mentioned before (not that I've taken it seriously though )

[Freakzilla]

Jabba = 1983 (Return of the Jedi); GEoD = 1981.

Which still proves nothing; I'm just throwing it out there. I'm not a big fan of the whole fanboy-esque "Hey, X is a rip-off of Y" argument. Taken to the extreme, then everything is just a rip-off of everything else that came before it chronologically. It's silly.

I agree that the argument about what is a rip-off and what isn't is pointless, still thanks for clearing up the chronology (as I said, I wasn't sure about Jabba's appearance in Episode IV), since I've encountered this parallel between Jabba and Leto II being mentioned before (not that I've taken it seriously though )

A New Hope (Ep. IV) or Return of the Jedi (Ep. VI)?

The scene with the CGI jabba in Ep. IV was added in the 1997 Re-release. The live action footage shot in 1976 featured a human Jabba.

[MrFlibble]

A New Hope (Ep. IV) or Return of the Jedi (Ep. VI)?

The scene with the CGI jabba in Ep. IV was added in the 1997 Re-release. The live action footage shot in 1976 featured a human Jabba.

Yes, I've meant Jabba in A New Hope. I suspected the scene was added later (since I read somewhere that initially Jabba was supposed to be human-like), but I was not sure about that.

[Freakzilla]

The guy next to Ford is Jabba:

http://homepage.mac.com/denkinews/images/misc/jabba/declan_mulholland_jabba.jpg

[Freakzilla]

[TheDukester]

... (since I read somewhere that initially Jabba was supposed to be human-like), but I was not sure about that.

Not quite right.

Lucas meant for there to be a big, fat Jabba in Star Wars,** but couldn't pull off the effects and/or the make-up. Harrison Ford needed someone to act against in that scene, so the goofy guy is there just for him to riff with. Everyone assumed that the final scene would actually feature a big, fat Jabba.

Fun SW trivia: not including a scene with Jabba actually makes SW a better movie. Think about it: if it would have worked, we'd have what eventually happened in the SW Special Edition: a scene where Greedo threatens Han with vengenance from Jabba, followed by ... wait for it ... a scene where Jabba threatens Han with vengeance from Jabba. Very, very poor story-telling.

Jabba is actually much better as an off-screen menace in the first two movies. A good writer would have understood this, and George Lucas, by his own admission, was a poor writer.

(Two of our good friends are also incapable of understanding off-screen action. I don't want to mention any names, but their initials are Kevin J. Anderson and Brian Herbert)

**I don't do "Episode IV" or "A New Hope" or any of that crap. Star Wars is Star Wars.

[Freakzilla]

**I don't do "Episode IV" or "A New Hope" or any of that crap. Star Wars is Star Wars.

I don't recognize the title "Led Zeppelin IV", either. It was untitled.

[Nekhrun]

A New Hope (Ep. IV) or Return of the Jedi (Ep. VI)?

The scene with the CGI jabba in Ep. IV was added in the 1997 Re-release. The live action footage shot in 1976 featured a human Jabba.

Yes, I've meant Jabba in A New Hope. I suspected the scene was added later (since I read somewhere that initially Jabba was supposed to be human-like), but I was not sure about that.

He was a big fat guy in a hairy vest.